Fuel storage and fuel transfer

[Light in the Dark]

HHO is basically off road diesel, with the addition of kerosene for low temperature anti-gelling characteristics. You should be able to run it just fine, but make sure you add something for lubricity (be heavy handed with it, as kero is tough on fuel components) to your day tank, every time its refilled. I would further consider adding a biocide at the same time (and a cetane booster or winter formula depending on the time of year).

 

[Chainbreaker]

Hi

...Somebody mentioned home heating oil as a possible fuel for military generator, if this can be done without major effort, then I'll replace my gas generators with diesel. As my keeping fresh fuel on hand would be over. Already heat with home heating oil burn 600-700 gallons a year and have a 1000 gallon tank that lives in garage two bays over from generator. So with no effort we would be getting fresh fuel every year.

Before someone asks the garage is 50 feet from the house, no noise no fumes, no carbon monoxide in the house.

Even keeping fresh gas for the generators is a pain, if stored for more than 3 months the generators start loosing power and efficiency.

Now, this all sounds to simple, what's wrong with it?

Cheers Phil.

There are SS members here that have their Aux fuel line plumbed into their HHO tank. They all run just fine and as LITD said its same as winter off-road diesel. Do a search on "HHO home heating oil". Lots of threads that have discussed it before. So, you got a green light to get a diesel and get rid of the gasser generator or use it as a backup. With a 1,000 gal HHO tank nearby you have the perfect setup for diesel genset! An added plus is that Diesel is 30% more efficient than gasoline and you won't be required to pay any road tax as you are currently with gasoline!

HHO = ULSD: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11211#

 

[LEOK]

Venting and biodiesel are your two storage problems. How long without power had two hurricanes leave me 22 days and 8 days. That 22 day one taught me stock up well in advance, we were out of gasoline days before the storm from people evacuating. Also keep a fair amount of cash no credit cards or atms worked, stories were stripped. Back to storage a 55 gallon drum or two filled up at off road ag station is easy. Tractor supply sells 12 transfer pump. If you get stuck with fuel seal the drum up tight and use some stabilizer it will keep for years. If you go with mep Gen set get the bung adapter and it will fill your on board tank.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Venting and biodiesel are your two storage problems.

That is a spot on statement!

I've become pretty anal lately about diesel storage/treatment. Also, since I have a diesel fueled truck (with multi-injection type injection events), a TDI SUV (still under warranty with DPF & Cat), generators and tractor once I read THIS ARTICLE I no longer purchase B20 diesel. I used to purchase it and yes it ran fine but that article made me rethink the long term effects on my small fleet of diesel engines (internals) in addition to possible storage deterioration effects. Now, I've standardized all my diesel fuel purchases and I only purchase B5 name brand diesel (Shell, Mobil, Chevron, etc.) even when B20 runs about 30 cents cheaper per gallon in my area.

I understand that all local diesel fuel comes down the line through the same distribution center with end use brand additives mixed at the racking terminal but to me its ALSO the handling/filtering/storage at the point of sale station that counts towards getting quality diesel fuel without any added contaminants (especially water). So with the least amount of BD as required by our state law (B5) and proper station handling/dispensing at high turnover stations I feel the diesel I purchase will store longer and in theory perform better.

However with that said, I wouldn't hesitate to run HHO in my gensets if it were available in bulk. Since I wouldn't be running it in "on-road vehicles" and because it would typically be shared for home heating purposes it wouldn't be sitting in long term static storage (routine turnover rate). Even if less routine turnover, that can be addressed with larger additive doses and good filtration.

I know the subject of BioDiesel is often heavily debated and older engines (without much in the way of pollution control or multi-injection events) seem to tolerate it better than later models (unless OEM B20 approved). My fuel choice is personal based on my existing fleet and my desire aimed towards long term ownership, YMMV.

 

[Bmxenbrett]

Venting and biodiesel are your two storage problems. How long without power had two hurricanes leave me 22 days and 8 days. That 22 day one taught me stock up well in advance, we were out of gasoline days before the storm from people evacuating. Also keep a fair amount of cash no credit cards or atms worked, stories were stripped. Back to storage a 55 gallon drum or two filled up at off road ag station is easy. Tractor supply sells 12 transfer pump. If you get stuck with fuel seal the drum up tight and use some stabilizer it will keep for years. If you go with mep Gen set get the bung adapter and it will fill your on board tank.

Your in FL so i would think you could use up a 55gal drum every few years. I bet this last storm where nearly tje whole state evacuated was a real eye opener to alot of people.

Thankfully my stste dosnt usualy have whole state evacuations and neither to many other states. How ever my area does get its fuel supplied by river barge...barges that dont run if the river is full of debts. It has happened a few times but again not normal.

I just picked up a clean VP racing fuel 55gal drum for $5. Clean and ready storage is nice to have especially for $5. My backup fuel is HHO but i want to avoid that with all the sludge in the tank, its asking for trouble.

 

[American Patriot 1960]

Here is a link I have provided before written by BP Australia. It was written to target bulk Diesel fuel storage but much of it can be applied to small quantity Diesel storage as well:

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/long-term-storage-diesel.pdf

Unfortunately it looks like that link no longer works...

 

[uniquify]

I found a copy of that PDF and uploaded it for safekeeping.

 

[American Patriot 1960]

That is a spot on statement!

I've become pretty anal lately about diesel storage/treatment. Also, since I have a diesel fueled truck (with multi-injection type injection events), a TDI SUV (still under warranty with DPF & Cat), generators and tractor once I read THIS ARTICLE I no longer purchase B20 diesel. I used to purchase it and yes it ran fine but that article made me rethink the long term effects on my small fleet of diesel engines (internals) in addition to possible storage deterioration effects. Now, I've standardized all my diesel fuel purchases and I only purchase B5 name brand diesel (Shell, Mobil, Chevron, etc.) even when B20 runs about 30 cents cheaper per gallon in my area.

I understand that all local diesel fuel comes down the line through the same distribution center with end use brand additives mixed at the racking terminal but to me its ALSO the handling/filtering/storage at the point of sale station that counts towards getting quality diesel fuel without any added contaminants (especially water). So with the least amount of BD as required by our state law (B5) and proper station handling/dispensing at high turnover stations I feel the diesel I purchase will store longer and in theory perform better.

However with that said, I wouldn't hesitate to run HHO in my gensets if it were available in bulk. Since I wouldn't be running it in "on-road vehicles" and because it would typically be shared for home heating purposes it wouldn't be sitting in long term static storage (routine turnover rate). Even if less routine turnover, that can be addressed with larger additive doses and good filtration.

I know the subject of BioDiesel is often heavily debated and older engines (without much in the way of pollution control or multi-injection events) seem to tolerate it better than later models (unless OEM B20 approved). My fuel choice is personal based on my existing fleet and my desire aimed towards long term ownership, YMMV.

That link was VERY INFORMATIVE.! It should be required reading for anyone thinking about attempting to store diesel fuel for any pronged period. Thanks much for the link!

 

[m32825]

From the pdf... "Ensure that the fuel is not in contact with any surfaces containing zinc or copper or compounds containing those metals (eg. brass). If those metals are present then a metal deactivator additive may help."

What is the standard issue dip tube made from?

-- Carl

 

[robson1015]

From the pdf... "Ensure that the fuel is not in contact with any surfaces containing zinc or copper or compounds containing those metals (eg. brass). If those metals are present then a metal deactivator additive may help."

What is the standard issue dip tube made from?

-- Carl

Copper

 

[Chainbreaker]

Everything you ever wanted to know about Biodiesel degradation (copper & brass corrosion included) and then some!

Warning...its a long but revealing read, if you want to bail out just read the first few pages and you will get the jest of it...

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,
The Adapter, Container NSN 5342-00-066-1235 MFR P/N: 13211E7541

Is the 5 gallon/55 gallon bung adapter which the aux fuel line connects to.


The tubing is Red Brass. It is NOT copper.

 

[Chainbreaker]

However, brass is an alloy of copper and zinc and the above referenced article I linked does mention that:

"Materials such as bronze, brass, copper, zinc, lead and tin are among the metals that can be oxidized on contact with diesel or biodiesel and create sediments"

A lot of diesel related equipment was engineered and designed before Biodiesel became of age and are now prone to react more adversely when encountering storage of fuels with those metals present when using Biodiesel, especially when encountering higher concentrations such as B20, etc.

Thus, I am using the lowest concentration of Biodiesel mandated fuel I can find (B5) and treating it with additives since I don't own anything "B20 approved". Hopefully my diesel powered equipment will outlive me!

 

[uniquify]

Everything you ever wanted to know about Biodiesel degradation (copper & brass corrosion included) and then some!

Warning...its a long but revealing read, if you want to bail out just read the first few pages and you will get the jest of it...

Uploading the PDF of that article for safekeeping.

 

[NEIOWA]

in my area propane is 1.25 gallon and NG is even cheaper. propane stores for longer with less hassle. why use a 1000 gallon tank? in my area a 250 gallon above ground propane tank cost about 250 dollars. what is wrong with having it delivered? NG would be my choice though because you can just hook it to the pipeline. i would make sure the gen was a 1800 rpm model with a 4 pole head.

NG is an interuptable fuel source. ONLY if the genset has fuel stored on site, is it classified as a backup/emergency genset. That means diesel or LP.