New -002A Owner looking for guidance

[Crusty007]

They're roughly 120º apart.

Not an issue now because I apparently turned it into a parts machine this morning. In checking my injection pump for operational readiness (it was) I reassembled the internal parts in the wrong order and then tightened it back down. This drove and jammed the little plunger deep into the end of the 12pt fitting and there's no way to get it back out. Apparently these parts can't be had so I just fubarred my genset. The learning curve is kinda steep on these things.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

They're roughly 120º apart.

Not an issue now because I apparently turned it into a parts machine this morning. In checking my injection pump for operational readiness (it was) I reassembled the internal parts in the wrong order and then tightened it back down. This drove and jammed the little plunger deep into the end of the 12pt fitting and there's no way to get it back out. Apparently these parts can't be had so I just fubarred my genset. The learning curve is kinda steep on these things.

That is definitely a problem... But still fixable.

May ask around on here and see if there is anyone parting out a machine. Finding a used pump or used parts anyways shouldn't be too difficult. The part you are looking for is the delivery valve and holder.

Would be best to salvage what you've got if you can though.

Have any pictures of what happened? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

 

[Crusty007]

I don't quite understand what happened myself. When I tightened the 12pt fitting (delivery valve holder?) it felt funny but it was really tight when I took it off so I kept cranking. When I installed the hex cover nut it didn't pull up tight against the seal and I knew then that something was wrong. Upon taking it apart I found some force marks in the mushroom looking button and the plunger (I don't know what it's called - delivery valve pin?) was nowhere to be found, but looking down inside the valve holder I could see a small round tit thing that I took to be the end of the plunger (but maybe not - it might be a centering boss for the spring). If so that means I somehow lost the plunger (valve pin). The seal on the mushroom button was cut too. While trying to get what I thought was the plunger out, I chucked it in the lathe and started to drill a hole from the outside to push the plunger out, intending to later weld the hole closed. Then the drill bit tip shattered inside the hole and I finally stopped. If that tit is supposed to be there then all I need is a plunger and a seal for the button, and I can TIG weld that drilled hole closed again, but I've had zero luck finding any IP repair parts other than gaskets and o-rings. And the IP piston was going in and out as I rotated the engine too so it wasn't stuck. Talk about highs and lows in a single day, man!

 

[Ray70]

Post up some pictures of what happened, I may be able to get you the parts you need. I recently ended up with 3 damaged PSU pumps that I had to replace with Ambac M-50's. Most of the components are identical except for the plunger and drive gear due to the lack of a plunger guide in the PSU model. Sounds like you need the entire delivery valve assembly as well as the 5/8" 12 pt. holder. The only thing I know I don't have is the tiny plastic SR8515 delivery valve spacer ( if you choose to use it ) but it is available direct from Ambac for about $25

 

[Ray70]

Also, in addition to moving in and out, was your plunger rotating?? If not, that's a clear sign of a broken $12 plunger guide which is pretty much the equivalent of a shear pin.
If that's the case, you are in for a complete tear down and rebuild, which is actually pretty easy.
Most of these parts including the plunger guide and all the o-rings etc. are all still available direct from Ambac International and they are very easy people to deal with, just use the exploded diagram to get the PN's of what you need.

 

[Crusty007]

There's nothing that can be seen in the pictures, except maybe the inside bottom of the valve body but I know that my camera won't be able to take a picture down inside. Your assessment is right Ray as I see it - I need the valve body and the things that go inside it.

I looked for rotation but couldn't see any and I assumed that because it was a smooth part there wasn't a way to see it rotating. I didn't find any plastic spacer when I took it apart either. I might be able to mark it with a Sharpie so I can tell if it's rotating.

Where can I find a picture of these parts and the p/ns? BTW - my IP didn't have Ambac anywhere on the blue label plate - just an unreadable type # and a table of spacr thicknesses on it. I couldn't find any reference to a manufacturer on it - my genset was built by Onan Div in 1984 BTW.

 

[Chainbreaker]

...Where can I find a picture of these parts and the p/ns?...

You can find them in the Techincal Manuals located here. In particular, you want the -24P manual. You will find the diagram and parts listing on "printed" pages 162-164.

Sorry to hear about your parts installation/orientation mix up. Don't despair its not a parts machine yet... Sounds like Ray70 can help and what he doesn't have Ambac should, assuming its an Ambac Pump.

 

[Crusty007]

Thanks CB, I have that manual but I overlooked the drawing of the IP when I went through it before.

 

[Crusty007]

I just marked the piston and then rotated the motor with a ratchet and I can see the piston rotating in a CCW direction so I guess that verifies functionality.

Here's a picture of the parts that I have. The seal on the mushroom button is cut and no doubt not a seal anymore. The valve housing has been "worked on" and though I can repair it I'd rather replace it if possible. I still don't know where the valve pin is though I do now remember dropping the button at one point so that's probably when it was lost - it's not inside the IP.

 

[Ray70]

If you look at the thin black ring around the outer delivery valve housing, that is the SR8515 delivery valve spacer. It's smaller in real life than it appears in the parts diagram. You should try to save it because I don't have one and it's $25 plus shipping for a new one.
I sent you a PM before reading this last post, so I now know what you need.
I will check and let you know tomorrow.
It sounds like you may have an American Bosch PSU pump, not that it matters much. You should see it written somewhere on the tag.
If you have a large phillips head screw head sticking out of a cast bump on the bottom of the pump , that is an indication that it's an American Bosch, the Ambac m-50 has the same bump in the casting but no hole machined in it and thus, no phillips head screw.

 

[Crusty007]

Thanks - I'll take a look tomorrow. I've studied the pump label plate extensively and I can factually state that Ambac (or any other manufacturer's name) is not on it, and I was thinking that I likely have a PSU.

So that thing I took to be a seal is actually the spacer? Looks like I'll be buying one of those because the one I have is cut. I hardly ever learn anything the cheap way.

ETA: I just took a look and the bump out on the bottom has a screw in it, so I guess I have a PSU on this gen.

 

[Guyfang]

A good question to ask yourself is, "Why is the blower fan missing two fins". There are several reasons I can think of. Most comomn is that the nut that holds the blower fan on is a left hand thread. So folks who do not read the TM, try and remove the blower fan with a BFW or socket, and block the fan with a bar.

Another reason is because the engine wont turn over, they use a pry bar to move the fan. So if you haven tried it yet, use a socket and turn the engine over. If its stuck, fixing the IP is your least problem. If its not stuck, you need to replace the fan. Adding weights is not the answer. Do not limit yourself, when looking for parts. 95%, or more, of the parts that fit your 002A can be replaced with 003A parts. The blower fan is one of them.

RTB

 

[Crusty007]

It's missing those fins because some ham fisted idiot broke them off, likely in the scenario you suggested. The engine turns over normally with a 3/8" drive ratchet on the center bolt. There's also one fin on a head that's cracked and it will eventually break off - maybe I can braze it. I've seen one of those fans (it's apparently called the flywheel) for sale on Ebay and in the back of my mind I'm already thinking about buying one if I can get this unit running and making juice.

That's really useful info to know about the mounting bolt - thanks. It makes sense for it to be wrong handed so that it will tighten as the motor rotates.

 

[Ray70]

Hi Crusty, Don't buy the flywheel on ebay, I have one I can sell you cheaper.
I'll reply to your PM with info on the IP parts as well.

 

[Crusty007]

A good question to ask yourself is, "Why is the blower fan missing two fins". There are several reasons I can think of. Most comomn is that the nut that holds the blower fan on is a left hand thread. So folks who do not read the TM, try and remove the blower fan with a BFW or socket, and block the fan with a bar.

Another reason is because the engine wont turn over, they use a pry bar to move the fan. So if you haven tried it yet, use a socket and turn the engine over. If its stuck, fixing the IP is your least problem. If its not stuck, you need to replace the fan. Adding weights is not the answer. Do not limit yourself, when looking for parts. 95%, or more, of the parts that fit your 002A can be replaced with 003A parts. The blower fan is one of them.

RTB

That taught me a lesson yet again. It's a right hand threaded bolt which holds the flywheel on and now I've got a broken bolt in the end of the crank.

 

[Guyfang]

I most humbly apologize. I have taken off 20 blowers, at least, and know its a right hand thread. Why I wrote its left hand, I just can not explain. I am truly sorry.

 

[Crusty007]

I've calmed down now and wish to submit my apologies to you. I should have stopped when I found that it was so hard to get any movement but everything else on this gen so far has been difficult to get apart and I thought that this bolt was just another example, so I kept hammering.

Once the bolt broke I tried to get the flywheel off and discovered that one of the two holes in it for use with a puller was stripped out.
I think I'll name it Satan's Powerplant since I once similarly owned Satan's Trailer.

 

[islandguydon]

Do you have the TM for that year. I have 4 different TMs for the 002A, Also a shit load of the single 24vdc battery NOS dry with seperate acid to fill the 12caps. Let me know what you need....k

 

[Crusty007]

I have the TM from here but I don't have a clue what years it's for. My 002A is a 1984 built by Onan according to the plate. Is there an advantage to using a 24v battery vs 2 12v batts? This is eventually going to become the backup power during floods at my cabin on the river and I could see it being a challenge to locate another 24v when the primary eventually fails, but 12vs are easy to come by even in rural areas. The battery boxes in it look like they will fit 2 12vs but I haven't checked because I have much to go through before I get there.

At least the delivery valve components that I got from Ray fit and installed easily so that problem's corrected.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Its designed for (2) 12V batteries in series.