Any electricians out there?? 120/240 Circuits Question

[Scoobyshep]

Is this panel on the outside of the house? Don’t think I have ever seen that before.

Its very common in the southern states.

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[Bill Nutting]

Its very common in the southern states.

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Thanks, being in Michigan they put them inside so the electricity doesn’t freeze...

 

[Waukesha]

Is this panel on the outside of the house? Don’t think I have ever seen that before.

Yes... Have to LOVE Tx.... Not only are they great to look at, it makes flipping a circuit extremely safe in a hurricane, etc.. In all honesty, it's stupid and lazy.

 

[Waukesha]

I have a distinct hatred for AFCI. They tend to be more of a nuisance than anything else. But ya gotta pass the inspection. Luckily my place was built in 71 so no AFCI.

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Exactly. I had the panel replaced on my 2003 house, and in doing so had to be brought up to code. I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Although I will say... As soon as my panel was replaced every time I'd turn on the lights in one of the bedrooms the circuit breaker would trip. I assumed it was a bad CB. Turns out the yahoo who lived here before me wired the fan wrong. Took a little investigation to find that.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Exactly. I had the panel replaced on my 2003 house, and in doing so had to be brought up to code. I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Although I will say... As soon as my panel was replaced every time I'd turn on the lights in one of the bedrooms the circuit breaker would trip. I assumed it was a bad CB. Turns out the yahoo who lived here before me wired the fan wrong. Took a little investigation to find that.

in the early days of AFCI ceiling fans and vacuum cleaners would set them off all the time. It would only take a few middle of the night wakeups due to lack of fan to send the AFCI breakers packing.

 

[wheelspinner]

Thanks, DiselAddict. Based on this article you posed (http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com/42+Circuit+Rule), it says " For example you could have a 240v circuit, that is just one circuit but has two pole positions." that leads me to believe that 240v = 1 circuit (out of my 40 max) Do you interpret it that same?

No. You have 40 poles. Period. Circuits are not poles. You are getting way sideways here. You can use the 40 poles however (within reason) I.e. double circuit piggyback breakers etc.

 

[Waukesha]

No. You have 40 poles. Period. Circuits are not poles. You are getting way sideways here. You can use the 40 poles however (within reason) I.e. double circuit piggyback breakers etc.

If that were the case, then why is my new sub panel rated at 12/24? (12 slots, 24 circuits??)

 

[tobyS]

Sorry, I'm not up on the latest requirement for AFCI. How about a front view of your new panel?

It really doesn't matter in this case, I would move the AFCI to the new box or go to the space that is not AFCI and put in tandems. As far as I know, tandems do not come in GFI or AFCI.

 

[Waukesha]

Sorry, I'm not up on the latest requirement for AFCI. How about a front view of your new panel?

It really doesn't matter in this case, I would move the AFCI to the new box or go to the space that is not AFCI and put in tandems. As far as I know, tandems do not come in GFI or AFCI.

I agree. That's my plan.

Now I'm just trying to decide if I'm able to punch out a hole in the upper right hand side of the panel and run a straight conduit over to the sub panel. I could possibly go up through the hub (which is currently unused) but I like the straight shot better, if possible.

Thoughts?

 

[tobyS]

It appears to be okay location but those incoming lines are too close to work safely. The left side is less crowded.

Being licensed, I break the seal on the meter, remove it and make sure it's open, install the conduit and wires and then put it back in place....then inform the utility what I did (why seal is broken).

But I have no idea about your electric company policy....they generally will turn off and on for you if it's legal for your area as owner, giving you an hour or two.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I can only imagine what a panel replacement will cost under NEC 2020 where basically all 120v circuits need to be AFCI

Friend of mine bought a house made in the 70s. In the inspection process, the inspector noted that the panel, and the breakers, were all older and had an active recall on them, caused quite a few fires over the years, apparently. $3500 to replace the panel and wire it, and add the required mains shutoff, which had to be a separate panel.. and a 3rd panel for something or other that required it's own box to bring up to current code (I think it might have been the hot tub?)

Guy got all the work done in a day. Only about $500 of that was labor. The parts list was $$$$$$. She only paid half, but still.... I remember something stupid, like she only had 100A service, but they required 200A panel or some crap like that.

 

[Waukesha]

It appears to be okay location but those incoming lines are too close to work safely. The left side is less crowded.

Being licensed, I break the seal on the meter, remove it and make sure it's open, install the conduit and wires and then put it back in place....then inform the utility what I did (why seal is broken).

But I have no idea about your electric company policy....they generally will turn off and on for you if it's legal for your area as owner, giving you an hour or two.

Thanks, Toby. The location to the right of the meter is the only place on the wall available. I think there's enough room on the right to get my punch set in there, but I see your point. Being visible from the road, I'm trying to minimize my conduit runs, its already pretty ugly...

Are you suggesting something more like this? 360* of bends seems like a PIA with 4 gauge copper..



Here is the top of the panel for your reference

 

[tobyS]

Straight and level and seal it well.

 

[Waukesha]

Straight and level and seal it well.

Thank! It's certainly the path of least resistance. What products do you recommend for sealing where the conduit enters the load centers?

 

[Scoobyshep]

I agree. That's my plan.

Now I'm just trying to decide if I'm able to punch out a hole in the upper right hand side of the panel and run a straight conduit over to the sub panel. I could possibly go up through the hub (which is currently unused) but I like the straight shot better, if possible.

Thoughts?
View attachment 831220

Yes you can put a conduit there, just be careful drilling .

 

[tobyS]

I don't work anything hot and don't recommend it to anyone.
Black silicone is good. Put a big bead across the tops of all the boxes.

When you move the aluminum wire out of the way while you drill and punch (or hole saw), the main lugs will all need re-torqued as they will likely be loose from moving the wires around.

 

[Waukesha]

I don't work anything hot and don't recommend it to anyone.
Black silicone is good. Put a big bead across the tops of all the boxes.

When you move the aluminum wire out of the way while you drill and punch (or hole saw), the main lugs will all need re-torqued as they will likely be loose from moving the wires around.

Thanks, Toby.

I ended up thinking outside the box and moving some of the conduit routed below the panel, and ran it that way. Appreciate your help!

 

[Scoobyshep]

Thanks, Toby.

I ended up thinking outside the box and moving some of the conduit routed below the panel, and ran it that way. Appreciate your help!

View attachment 831971

Not bad.

Little hint for future reference, If you need an LB (or LL/LR) and arent sure which to order. hold the fitting like a pistol LL for left and LR for right. For your install a LL might have been easier.

 

[tobyS]

Fine mount. Water does not go up and you probably used a knock out hole, so didn't have to disturb too much wiring. Still, do what you can to put a seal at the top so water does not find the mounting holes.

What did you end up with for the branch breaker?

 

[Waukesha]

Not bad.

Little hint for future reference, If you need an LB (or LL/LR) and arent sure which to order. hold the fitting like a pistol LL for left and LR for right. For your install a LL might have been easier.

Agreed, that it how it should be done. I had to go to 3-4 different stores just to get the PVC that I did. For some reason, supply is tight in the Houston area.