Functional electric fan conversion.

[fairladyaffair]

What is the intended operating temp with this kit? If the fan comes on at 180? My gauge isnt in the green until 185.
Wouldn’t that be pointless if the thermostat is still closed?

Your truck will operate between 200 and 210. The thermostat opens at 185 but it will continue to heat up. The fan itself operates on low at 180 and high kicks on at 200 degrees just like the hydraulic did. Essentially your getting the same operation as the hydraulic just without the parasitic nature. It is also extreamly more efficent when the vehicle is at low rpms, speeds, or idel. The hydraulic unit can only achieve its massive cfm at high rpm and usually at speeds where significant airflow is not a tremendous issue, but when necessary it helps to pull cool air through the radiator even at those high speeds.

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[fairladyaffair]

.
I need a fishing pole!

Anyhow, here I go fishing again. The way the military gauges are in the vehicles I have, 5° is no big deal. The better question is how about the thermostat? Is it a 180° piece of metal down there in the water neck? Those parts get old and sometimes need to be replaced. A temperature gun might tell you what heat you might really be seeing.

Definitely easy enough to adjust the thermostat on the electric blower. If not, it would be easy to add something to the circuit to choose your number.

I have M1088 and M1089 trucks that have factory fans on the waterpumps in those trucks. They also have factory electric pusher fans in front of the radiator, so the military has done this before. The electrics rarely come on in my trucks and I honestly don't know what the temp setting is. There is an OFF switch on the dash too for fording.

Just more information to share...

I actually made a couple videos using a laser thermometer to do just as you stated showing the fan system operating.

Following are two links to videos on my instagram @dirtyvee90

http://instagr.am/p/CR-zcCNlRA5/
http://instagr.am/p/CSoHLspl51j/

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[Milcommoguy]

Yep, the greatest thing about this setup is it pulls air when it needs it no matter the rpm. The hydraulic requires high rpm to produce the cfm numbers everyone is so proud of. The electric recognizes when it is needed and engages regardless of rpm it pulls the same amount of air whatever stage it is in. It uses two different thermal switches to decide which speed to engage. One at 180 degrees, low speed, and one at 200 degrees, high speed. It is especially useful when the truck is at extreamly low speed, like rock crawling, traffic, or just idle simply because of its ability to engage high speed when necessary. The hydraulic fan will never pull as much air as this setup does at low speed. At highway speeds it there is not a problem moving air through the radiator so the ridiculous amount of air at that point is over kill. If an admin will approve me to the steel soldiers facebook group ill post some videos.

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Not looking to beat anyone over the head here...so put your kelval on or thinking cap LOL

Here in the Mojave Desert, but could be anywhere... HIGH temps into the 118 range pulling a trailer or cruising around town in stop and go traffic, the OEM fan set-up just follows along on demand. Doesn't matter what speed. / RPM... if my rig needs to cool down it come on, does it job, rinse and repeat. Even in the un-locked / freewheeling mode it is moving air... and I am not looking to test it by grabbing a spinning fan blade. (who does that ?) Good chance of doing that only once. Some have placed a switch to force the fan to run... Interesting concept.

Yes, when it does kick in... it is a wind tunnel, horsepower sucking machine. Sound wise is most noticeable at highway speeds. Around town, don't even notice and I have a light that indicates fan lock-up.

I wonder if some of the heating issue here aren't due to poor maintenance, clogged up system, having sat for ten years. Just saying. One thing for sure, with all the radiators stacked on top of one another, if a guy could remote a couple and blow the "electric air' across them that would be clever or a PITA ??

I understand the two speed design your going after. Here's an idea. How about say a BLDC motor with proportional speed tracking temp control.

Keep at it. Could be the the next cool thing, CAMO

 

[Action]

Your truck will operate between 200 and 210. The thermostat opens at 185 but it will continue to heat up. The fan itself operates on low at 180 and high kicks on at 200 degrees just like the hydraulic did. Essentially your getting the same operation as the hydraulic just without the parasitic nature. It is also extreamly more efficent when the vehicle is at low rpms, speeds, or idel. The hydraulic unit can only achieve its massive cfm at high rpm and usually at speeds where significant airflow is not a tremendous issue, but when necessary it helps to pull cool air through the radiator even at those high speeds.

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Im still hung up on the temps. You say my truck will stay 200-210. Your fan comes on low at 180 and high at 200. Doesn’t that mean your fan will be running on high ALWAYS, once the engine warms up? And, if im not mistaken, the hydraulic fan turns on at 220 and shuts off about 200. And only takes about 30 seconds to drop the temp.

 

[fairladyaffair]

Not looking to beat anyone over the head here...so put your kelval on or thinking cap LOL

Here in the Mojave Desert, but could be anywhere... HIGH temps into the 118 range pulling a trailer or cruising around town in stop and go traffic, the OEM fan set-up just follows along on demand. Doesn't matter what speed. / RPM... if my rig needs to cool down it come on, does it job, rinse and repeat. Even in the un-locked / freewheeling mode it is moving air... and I am not looking to test it by grabbing a spinning fan blade. (who does that ?) Good chance of doing that only once. Some have placed a switch to force the fan to run... Interesting concept.

Yes, when it does kick in... it is a wind tunnel, horsepower sucking machine. Sound wise is most noticeable at highway speeds. Around town, don't even notice and I have a light that indicates fan lock-up.

I wonder if some of the heating issue here aren't due to poor maintenance, clogged up system, having sat for ten years. Just saying. One thing for sure, with all the radiators stacked on top of one another, if a guy could remote a couple and blow the "electric air' across them that would be clever or a PITA ??

I understand the two speed design your going after. Here's an idea. How about say a BLDC motor with proportional speed tracking temp control.

Keep at it. Could be the the next cool thing, CAMO

I completely agree cooling issues are from an unhealthy cooling system for the most part or a rig doing way more than it was ever designed to do.

My truck actually does have a completely divorced cooling system. This is the main reason i am installing a few prototypes on factory trucks to be 100% sure it functions properly on customers vehicles.

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[fairladyaffair]

Im still hung up on the temps. You say my truck will stay 200-210. Your fan comes on low at 180 and high at 200. Doesn’t that mean your fan will be running on high ALWAYS, once the engine warms up? And, if im not mistaken, the hydraulic fan turns on at 220 and shuts off about 200. And only takes about 30 seconds to drop the temp.

No it wont run all the time. Scroll up and click on my links to my instagram and watch the videos. You can see how it functions for yourself

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[fairladyaffair]

Some images from test day. It was 100 degrees out.

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[Coug]

Im still hung up on the temps. You say my truck will stay 200-210. Your fan comes on low at 180 and high at 200. Doesn’t that mean your fan will be running on high ALWAYS, once the engine warms up? And, if im not mistaken, the hydraulic fan turns on at 220 and shuts off about 200. And only takes about 30 seconds to drop the temp.

I think part of that is the lower thermostat (no idea when it opens, but I know these engines don't like being below about 190 or they start having issues). From all of this, I would assume it's something like a 165 degree thermostat or something like that that is fully open by 180 degrees where the electric fan would come on at low speed.
I'm still scratching my head on this also. Unless you're living somewhere that's hot all the time, when the ambient temps are lower, and you aren't pushing the rig, it will never actually get up to operating temp. And the heater core temp will end up being lower as well (and the heat kind of sucks in these to begin with)

As a play vehicle that doesn't see life in the real world, and everything else that we can now see having been done to the truck, I have no doubts that it does the job. For a regular use truck that's driven in all climates and temps, I'm not so sure if it's going to work out.

 

[Milcommoguy]

Setting in my easy chair and fumbling with the numbers and a beer (putting all the post together) I came to the conclusion that one couldn't blow or suck enough air with ONE "over the counter fan" to do the job in a stock configuration.

Kind of a factory HumV guy here... So after playing with the gang here... are we hearing/ seeing it's not just one fan its four. Am I getting this right ??

I do like what your doing from an engineering, project point... But I think "Franken-Humv" is out of my "keep it green, clean and mean" hobby sense.

Gots to be an "E" ticket ride on the ki Ki Ki kidneys LOL.

Keep up the concept and those big fat tires on the ground, CAMO

 

[fairladyaffair]

Setting in my easy chair and fumbling with the numbers and a beer (putting all the post together) I came to the conclusion that one couldn't blow or suck enough air with ONE "over the counter fan" to do the job in a stock configuration.

Kind of a factory HumV guy here... So after playing with the gang here... are we hearing/ seeing it's not just one fan its four. Am I getting this right ??

I do like what your doing from an engineering, project point... But I think "Franken-Humv" is out of my "keep it green, clean and mean" hobby sense.

Gots to be an "E" ticket ride on the ki Ki Ki kidneys LOL.

Keep up the concept and those big fat tires on the ground, CAMO

Na its just one, i do have others but they rarely turn on. Each one on my oil coolers has its own thermostat. Don't worry I'm going to put a setup on a stock system for ya

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[fairladyaffair]

I think part of that is the lower thermostat (no idea when it opens, but I know these engines don't like being below about 190 or they start having issues). From all of this, I would assume it's something like a 165 degree thermostat or something like that that is fully open by 180 degrees where the electric fan would come on at low speed.
I'm still scratching my head on this also. Unless you're living somewhere that's hot all the time, when the ambient temps are lower, and you aren't pushing the rig, it will never actually get up to operating temp. And the heater core temp will end up being lower as well (and the heat kind of sucks in these to begin with)

As a play vehicle that doesn't see life in the real world, and everything else that we can now see having been done to the truck, I have no doubts that it does the job. For a regular use truck that's driven in all climates and temps, I'm not so sure if it's going to work out.

You have to understand something. There is a lot more to how a coolant system works than just crunching numbers.

For example: my thermostat open at 185 degrees, this does not mean the water will not heat up past that temperature. The radiator holds a lot more water than the engine can cycle at one time. The fans maintain the water temperature in a range. My electric fan has one thermal switch on the radiator for low speed that activates at 180 degrees and deactivates at 165 degrees. The high speed sources engine water temperature from the engine water kept inside by the thermostat and activates at 200 degrees, deactivating at 180 degrees. By cycling cooler water you lower your normal operating temps. For those of us cruising around, driving everyday back and forth to places etc. Then there is heavier trucks operating in tougher conditions, they will like generate more heat. In theory the internal engine temps will increase more rapidly, having lower temp water means there is more "room" for the engine to heat up, or time to heat up, before any heat damage can occur and gives the cooling system (either hydraulic or electric) a chance to bring temps down to normal levels or maintain temps at nominal levels.

In closing depending on what your doing temps will go up and down regardless of your fan system. Mine electric systen successfully maintains a 200 degree to 210 degree engine block temperature. With water temps in the engine fluctuating between 180 and 200 and 165 to 200 in the radiator depending on the load. Heres a link to my videos.

http://instagr.am/p/CR-zcCNlRA5/
http://instagr.am/p/CSoHLspl51j/
Feel free to check them out for yourself.

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[Coug]

Sorry, I don't do instagram.

Okay, so you're saying you have a 185 degree thermostat.
I'm seeing various thermostats sold under the part number in the manual for the 6.2l HMMWV as either a 170 opening/180 open or a 190 degree open depending on who is selling it. So the 185 isn't really a lower temp thermostat. Still within the range I'd expect for this engine. When you said lower temp, I thought you were talking like a 165 degree thermostat or something like that which could have an impact.

And yes, I understand how a cooling system works. The coolant inside the engine block heats up, and once the coolant gets up above the opening temp of the thermostat, then the thermostat begins to open, allowing coolant from the radiator (which should be at a lower temperature at this stage) flow into the engine block. Until the coolant in the block is at or above the fully open temp of the thermostat, it's only partially open, restricting flow.
Once the thermostat is fully open, the coolant circulated freely through both the engine block and the radiator. As it travels through the radiator it gets cooled by the air flowing through the radiator area. It should be at a lower temp by the time it exits the radiator back into the engine block.

The temperature of the coolant inside the block should remain constantly at or above the opening temp of the thermostat. Is your 185 degree thermostat just beginning to open at that temp, or is that the fully open temp? I'm wondering because with the high speed fan switch on the engine, rather than the radiator, in theory the high speed fan turning back off at 180 would mean that once it kicks on, it should never turn back off until the engine is shut down and has a chance to cool off. Not saying that's what is happening, but it does make me wonder. I do like the low speed fan sender being on the radiator itself, as it doesn't matter how hot the engine coolant in the block is if the radiator is full of cold coolant it doesn't really need cooled any further.

 

[Coug]

As for the crunching numbers, at this point any numbers for the original cooling setup are worthless for comparing to your truck. That 10k+ cfm that cools everything right down doesn't compare to your vehicle as you've divorced all those systems that were being cooled together by that one fan. With it being multiple systems, it wouldn't surprise me if you're still able to move that much (or nearly that much) when combining all the different systems air handling.

The part that you say your thermostat opens at 185, means by 195 it should be fully open. The fact that you say it's running up in the 200-210 area with the fan on high means to me that you're pushing it past what it's capable of handling. Or very borderline. I don't know of any system that is designed to run at it's max cooling capacity all the time; there is usually quite a bit of safety margin.

You're playing with a truck that's probably in the 6500-7k lb range (base truck around 5500 lbs, plus that 1k of under armor protection you have added). You're up at 200-210 degrees with the cooling fan running at max.

My truck weighs 9k-9500 lbs when set up with the BEOD and my tools/equipment in it. On top of that I commonly tow trailers in the 3500-5k lbs range, bringing me up to around 14k lbs combined. That's twice the weight of your truck. Add to that doing highway speeds with all of that additional flat sail surface pushing into the wind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say your system isn't any good. My opinion is actually the opposite. You're doing an amazing job, and it's very impressive how much work you have into it. I'm just trying to make sure all the bases are covered and nothing has been overlooked in this development, so that if/when this product comes to market, it will be one that works well, and doesn't hurt any trucks or reputations.

 

[fairladyaffair]

Sorry, I don't do instagram.

Okay, so you're saying you have a 185 degree thermostat.
I'm seeing various thermostats sold under the part number in the manual for the 6.2l HMMWV as either a 170 opening/180 open or a 190 degree open depending on who is selling it. So the 185 isn't really a lower temp thermostat. Still within the range I'd expect for this engine. When you said lower temp, I thought you were talking like a 165 degree thermostat or something like that which could have an impact.

And yes, I understand how a cooling system works. The coolant inside the engine block heats up, and once the coolant gets up above the opening temp of the thermostat, then the thermostat begins to open, allowing coolant from the radiator (which should be at a lower temperature at this stage) flow into the engine block. Until the coolant in the block is at or above the fully open temp of the thermostat, it's only partially open, restricting flow.
Once the thermostat is fully open, the coolant circulated freely through both the engine block and the radiator. As it travels through the radiator it gets cooled by the air flowing through the radiator area. It should be at a lower temp by the time it exits the radiator back into the engine block.

The temperature of the coolant inside the block should remain constantly at or above the opening temp of the thermostat. Is your 185 degree thermostat just beginning to open at that temp, or is that the fully open temp? I'm wondering because with the high speed fan switch on the engine, rather than the radiator, in theory the high speed fan turning back off at 180 would mean that once it kicks on, it should never turn back off until the engine is shut down and has a chance to cool off. Not saying that's what is happening, but it does make me wonder. I do like the low speed fan sender being on the radiator itself, as it doesn't matter how hot the engine coolant in the block is if the radiator is full of cold coolant it doesn't really need cooled any further.

You dont have to "do instagram" to watch the video. Its a direct link to each video and can be opened on your web browser.

Your understanding of the coolant system is mostly correct. Think of the thermostat opening and exchanging the water in the engine with water from the radiator. Once that is enough to bring the thermostat back down to closed it holds that portion of water till it reaches a temp to completely re open. It does. There is significantly more water in the radiator than is in the engine so you don't really trade one for the other.

The fan does not stay on all the time. It operates in the exact same fashion as the hydraulic does if you need a comparison. It is off until engine water temps reach 180 degrees in the radiator which means at idle it heats up faster, a good thing for colder environments. It operates low speed most of the time the vehicle is in operation in most environments but it colder temps it will deactivate when water drops below 165 degrees. The engine block temps and the water temps are not the same although close. For example water temps could be 185 degrees and the engine block could be 200 degrees. This is why i say crunching the numbers is only a start to how a cooling system may operate. There are many variables that change its operation. Mine is setup to operate based on condition specifically with the humvees potential issues in mind. I am sorry i cannot explain it to you in a way you can understand. Please just click on my links and youll see what how well it operates. The videos use a laser thermometer to show the temps as the system cycles on and off. I change its locations multiple times so you can see for yourself how it works. Cheers.

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[fairladyaffair]

As for the crunching numbers, at this point any numbers for the original cooling setup are worthless for comparing to your truck. That 10k+ cfm that cools everything right down doesn't compare to your vehicle as you've divorced all those systems that were being cooled together by that one fan. With it being multiple systems, it wouldn't surprise me if you're still able to move that much (or nearly that much) when combining all the different systems air handling.

The part that you say your thermostat opens at 185, means by 195 it should be fully open. The fact that you say it's running up in the 200-210 area with the fan on high means to me that you're pushing it past what it's capable of handling. Or very borderline. I don't know of any system that is designed to run at it's max cooling capacity all the time; there is usually quite a bit of safety margin.

You're playing with a truck that's probably in the 6500-7k lb range (base truck around 5500 lbs, plus that 1k of under armor protection you have added). You're up at 200-210 degrees with the cooling fan running at max.

My truck weighs 9k-9500 lbs when set up with the BEOD and my tools/equipment in it. On top of that I commonly tow trailers in the 3500-5k lbs range, bringing me up to around 14k lbs combined. That's twice the weight of your truck. Add to that doing highway speeds with all of that additional flat sail surface pushing into the wind.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say your system isn't any good. My opinion is actually the opposite. You're doing an amazing job, and it's very impressive how much work you have into it. I'm just trying to make sure all the bases are covered and nothing has been overlooked in this development, so that if/when this product comes to market, it will be one that works well, and doesn't hurt any trucks or reputations.

For the record i really do appreciate the constructive criticism as your truck is a target i want it to work on. Soon ill have it on a stock system to see where it really stands.

Fyi the other fans rarely operate and are def not contributing to cfm production. The cooling stack being divorced however is def on my mind as far as efficiency and of the reasons i am putting it on a stock truck before offering it for sale. Thanks again.

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[Coug]

For the record i really do appreciate the constructive criticism as your truck is a target i want it to work on. Soon ill have it on a stock system to see where it really stands.

Fyi the other fans rarely operate and are def not contributing to cfm production. The cooling stack being divorced however is def on my mind as far as efficiency and of the reasons i am putting it on a stock truck before offering it for sale. Thanks again.

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I was thinking more of the restriction, and the fact that all of their waste heat was being blown past the primary radiator before the radiator even got a chance to cool off. the 10k cfm number that's been thrown out seems to be just a guess at the minimum it might be. It wouldn't surprise me to find it is a much higher number, or that that is the amount it can pull through the radiator, not just a no-restriction air movement.

One numbers comparison though, your electric fan is less than 1hp; the stock fan is approx 10hp of draw. It's definitely a major change in how much power is being used.

 

[Action]

i am sorry i cannot explain it to you in a way you can understand.

LOL.

The high speed sources engine water temperature from the engine water kept inside by the thermostat and activates at 200 degrees, deactivating at 180 degrees. By cycling cooler water you lower your normal operating temps.

Did you just tell us again that your fan will always be running on high? Operating temp of my engine is not below 180. You also mentioned an operating temp of 200-210. So, the fan will always be on , on high speed.....
If the operating temp is 20-30 degrees hotter than the fan OFF temp, it wont shut off.

 

[Glider]

When you get finished with this setup I would be interested in a 24v helper fan that bolts directly on top of a portion of stack that has barriers between the radiators to keep forcing air thru both radiators and also a thermostat to turn it on. it might run all the time in summer. Keep the hydraulic intact also. Or...a kit that does a better job of sealing the hood to stack so that air forced into the hood is directed to the stack.

I have researched the hood scoops that H1 guys tried. it seems like they had the right concept for the scoop but it just forced air under the hood not thru the stack.

 

[fairladyaffair]

LOL.



Did you just tell us again that your fan will always be running on high? Operating temp of my engine is not below 180. You also mentioned an operating temp of 200-210. So, the fan will always be on , on high speed.....
If the operating temp is 20-30 degrees hotter than the fan OFF temp, it wont shut off.

No, im telling you it wont be. Again, watch the video it illustrates exactly how it works.

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[fairladyaffair]

LOL.



Did you just tell us again that your fan will always be running on high? Operating temp of my engine is not below 180. You also mentioned an operating temp of 200-210. So, the fan will always be on , on high speed.....
If the operating temp is 20-30 degrees hotter than the fan OFF temp, it wont shut off.

No, im telling you it wont be. Again, watch the video it illustrates exactly how it works.

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