Funky steering

[ldmack3]

Finally got Burt drive able after one year! YEA!!!!
RH fuel pump failed, got another coming.

Steering is funky. Seems like after making a turn and straightening out it pulls pretty good in that direction for a bit. If I don't grip the wheel it wants to take off that direction. After a minute it stops doing it. Labor Day parade today so lots of people and traffic. Tomorrow I'll try to find a place I can test it more thoroughly. Got up to 40 MPH today. Too scared of the steering to go any faster. It has hydraulic power steering so easy as pie to turn. No leaks, plenty of fluid. Running singles, 395/85R-20s.

Any thoughts?

 

[kendelrio]

Check your steering linkage, ball joints etc. It may be loose and you have a wheel "drifting". Not a good situation.

 

[kendelrio]

Jack the truck up on that side and shake the tire is the easiest way. If it's loose.... start there.

 

[frank8003]

What flavor hydraulic steering?
Did it used to pull?

 

[ldmack3]

Don't know. I'll post a pic. I bought the truck last Sept and drove it 1 mile from the drop off to the house. Ran it a lot but this is the first I've driven it. Ignore the wire.

 

[ldmack3]

Jack the truck up on that side and shake the tire is the easiest way. If it's loose.... start there.

I'll try to determine if it pull both directions tomorrow. Seems like always to the right but uncertain.

 

[ldmack3]

A couple of other things I've noticed, may be nothing.
While I was working on it I noticed the LH side sat lower than the right by about 2". That's bumper to ground and tire to fender. Leaf springs looked the same, eyeballing them, no difference. My driveway is not level, slightly, so I wanted to find a level spot and check again. Today I noticed it seems much more level sitting in the same spot.

Also both trips out while doing downhill in the gravel driveway when it curves to the right feels like the back end is bouncing and hopping. Doesn't do it coming uphill.

Like I said may be nothing but first tie I've really driven it.

 

[ldmack3]

I went back and forth jacking each side one at a time and shaking the tire. I could get no movement caster/camber. But I'm getting up there is years and arthritic so my strength is limited as far as checking caster/ camber. But both side have some movement toe in/out. Perhaps 1 inch. I left the opposite side on the ground to help isolate the force applied to the side jacked. From my experience on 2WD this could indicate tie rod end(s). Never worked on the front end of a 4WD so I lack some knowledge there. When driving there did not seem to be excessive slop in the steering, it turns as soon as I move the wheel.

Both knuckle boots are shot and need to be replaced but I've not collected the parts and tools to do everything I want to. Wheel cylinders, bearings, races, seals, etc. Pretty much everything I can as long as I am there. Maybe even the brakes depending on the wear and king pin bushings.

So..sound like tie rod ends? Is there another check/test I should do? Open for advice and suggestions, just want to get to it safely drivable for a while.

Also noticed the attached. Seems like an awful lot of space there on the LH side.

 

[tobyS]

That space allows some flex of the primary spring and is normal. What doesn't seem to be right is the wheel back spacing. Also, running 395, did they change the castor angle on the spring to axle block? It should look flat. If there is an angle....needs changed/milled.

Give us some side pictures and details on the wheels. They may set up with less backspace and then not rub.

Good luck with it......don't be scared to entirely rebuild the brakes asap.

 

[ldmack3]

I bought the truck with the 395s from a seller who also did not put them on so I have to clue about the caster. This is another question I need to answer. Don't see it could cause my immediate concern. Could it?
Tomorrow I'll jack both sides simultaneously and put it on stands to do some more attempted manipulation of the wheels.

When on the ground I ran the engine and the steering wheel only turns 1 inch before the tires start to move. I know steering needs a little lag to prevent excessive wear.

Thanks for the input!

 

[ldmack3]

I’ll rebuild the brakes as needed since I’ll already be there. Don’t like doing things twice. What kind of details are you looking for? I’ll post some pics in the AM.

 

[ldmack3]

Spent some time playing with the front end while jacked.

Happy with the tie rod. Slop was just the steering. Pittman arm and everything else appear good with to incorrect movement that I can detect.

2x6 set up pic
With this set up, the RH side will move up/down about 1/8”. Sounds like a lot more with the thumping. LH side you can hear it but visually it is negligible.

Measuring toe in/out front edge of tire in line with the axle is 57” back edge is 58”.

Looking down the side the RH tire looks to be further outboard than the right.

Side view pics -not sure they are a good indication of anything as both fenders went through extensive repair due to rust. Had I known how much time I would spend on them I would have bought new ones. But pics as requested.

If I can get to safe and feel confident to drive it I may elect to go to a front end shop after I do everything I can.

Suspect I will start with the RH and look anything worn or out of whack. Any pointers on what to look for would be appreciated!

 

[gringeltaube]

Measuring toe in/out front edge of tire in line with the axle is 57” back edge is 58”.

That's way too much toe in. In my experience, radials on these trucks should run almost parallel. (= close to zero toe-in).
Besides that, you want to check your caster angle. 3-4 deg positive is what works best, with radials. From factory, they come with 1-2°, at most.

 

[ldmack3]

Yea I will adjust the toe in after I figure out what's wrong with the pulling. As far as caster, I don't see where there is any adjustment so something will have to be made/modified I think.

Thanks

 

[ldmack3]

OK pulled the wheel and hub. Need to go back and review the Tactical Repair video on this as I can't get the inner bearing out. But so far I'm not impressed with the amount of grease I'm seeing. I've yet to clean it all up as I want to do both bearings and hub all at once. But the inner race looks like it has overheated.

 

[G744]

Silly question, but have you made sure it is not in all wheel drive?

DG

 

[Mullaney]

OK pulled the wheel and hub. Need to go back and review the Tactical Repair video on this as I can't get the inner bearing out. But so far I'm not impressed with the amount of grease I'm seeing. I've yet to clean it all up as I want to do both bearings and hub all at once. But the innerView attachment 844493View attachment 844494View attachment 844495View attachment 844496View attachment 844497View attachment 844498View attachment 844499View attachment 844500View attachment 844501 race looks like it has overheated.

.
Unless I missed it somewhere, This is a Deuce, M35 / M37 or similar truck?

That bearing should have stayed in the drum / spyder behind the grease seal.
Unless I miss my guess. The clue for me was that you said "race looks overheated" - and that would possibly make the bearing want to stick to the spindle a little more than it should have.

EDIT: Updated / Corrected with information from gringeltaub I have made the strike-through edits above.

The M35 does NOT have a press in (tap in) seal in the back of the drum.
The bearing stays on the spindle until removed.

 

[ldmack3]

M35A2. First time I've pulled the hubs since I got it but only drove <10 miles since I did. Only thing I know of this job on a deuce is what I see on Tactical Repair. Have done cars before but not a deuce. In the video it showed the inner staying with the spindle not the hub. I want to do a complete clean up and inspection due to the pulling I saw this week.

 

[ldmack3]

Silly question, but have you made sure it is not in all wheel drive?

DG

You mean as far as not being able to get the bearing out?
When I started disassembling it today I made sure they were unlocked.

 

[frank8003]

Remember two things
DO NOT mix different flavors grease. That action is detrimental to expensive parts.
Also the "BOOTS" correct terminology is Dust boots. Not oil, grease boots.
When One pumps up the grease in the front end fittings One MUST remove the "goessoutah" fitting as per the TM. Many threads on these things. If You want I can post them all again...............