3 positions keyed switch question

[Atchuuu]

I installed a 3 position switch with key. It works great but I have a question about the accessory post.

the middle position on the switch is in the run position, straight up. This is the position that allows the key to be removed. The accessory post is not hot.
When turned to the left “engine stop” position the accessory post is hot.

it is also hot when in start position.

does this sound correct? Did I purchase the wrong type of switch? My preference would be accessories off when in engine stop position and be able to remove the key there.

TIA

 

[Mogman]

That does not sound correct at all, the key should be removable in the off position only, that is a cute switch but I doubt it is up to the task.
Common wisdom is any keyed switch is a no no, but I believe there are some industrial switches up to the task but that does not look like one.

 

[Atchuuu]

That does not sound correct at all, the key should be removable in the off position only, that is a cute switch but I doubt it is up to the task.
Common wisdom is any keyed switch is a no no, but I believe there are some industrial switches up to the task but that does not look like one.

Thank you smog man. Purchased online as it said for HMMWV. Learning that isn’t the case. I have confirmed that it is hooked up correctly but the “off” position is in the center, not to the far left.

will look for a better solution.

appreciate the reply!

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Cheap keyed switches are the easiest way to empty your wallet of an additional $1k in a turn or 2 of your ignition switch.

 

[papakb]

BUY THIS SWITCH: Cole Hersee 956-3125-BX Ignition Switch (3 Position)

American made, heavy duty and it'll outlast you and your truck! That stuff you find online is mostly Chinese made junk that will fail you at the worst possible moment!

#11A = BATTERY
#29A = RUN
#14A = START

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

BUY THIS SWITCH: Cole Hersee 956-3125-BX Ignition Switch (3 Position)

American made, heavy duty and it'll outlast you and your truck! That stuff you find online is mostly Chinese made junk that will fail you at the worst possible moment!

don’t use any 3 position switch, use a quality rated 2 pos switch and just switch the 11a run position as needed, this leaves you keeping the OEM start switch that rarely fail.

 

[BLK HMMWV]

So, let it be on this day the 16th of January, in the year 2023 that Mogman will forever be known as Smogman
Thus, sayeth the BLK HMMWV. All in favor say Aye.

 

[Thumper580]

Blackdog Customs told me that the overwhelming majority of ESS start boxes he replaces used keyed ignitions.... Food for thought.

 

[Atchuuu]

Blackdog Customs told me that the overwhelming majority of ESS start boxes he replaces used keyed ignitions.... Food for thought.

I did have the same issues prior to adding the key switch so if theESS is bad it was bad for another reason in this case.

Curios to know your thoughts on why a keyed switch would be my different. If appropriately rated, what difference could it make?

 

[papakb]

Keyed switches can provide a level of security the standard lever switch doesn't but I think it's more an issue of guys just think trucks should have a keyswitch in them. A funny story:

Years back I had a code compliance lady stop by the house because she saw that my truck didn't move very often and she thought I was violating a parking ordnance. She then looks in the truck and sees the steering wheel cable and wants to know about that. My wife tells her the truck doesn't have a key so that's the way the militay secures them. This lady goes completely bonkers over that and could not understand that the military doesn't use key switchws because in a war there's no time to look for who had them last! My wife pateintly explains that most M series trucks don't have keys and the CC lady just shakes her head and goes off thinking how stupid the military is not to have keys in their trucks.

Maybe we all just grow up believing trucks should have keys.

 

[springer1981]

All ignition switches are not created equal. Cheap crap is just that. Here's a picture of what happens when cheap switches are used. The wiper is not made of copper. This is the key ignition switch that was installed in my HMMWV before I purchased it.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

All ignition switches are not created equal. Cheap crap is just that. Here's a picture of what happens when cheap switches are used. The wiper is not made of copper. This is the key ignition switch that was installed in my HMMWV before I purchased it.

View attachment 888859

exactly, the cheap switches aren’t designed to carry the type of amps required for continuous use…this is how EESS boxes get shorted out and thus blow glow plugs…

 

[Mogman]

I believe what causes the average key switch to fail is not only the current but the reverse EMF caused by the large solenoid.
when the start position is released the collapsing magnetic field across the solenoid creates a very large reverse EMF this creates an arc across the contacts, if the contacts are not far enough apart the arc just continues until the switch pretty much melts down.

This can be stopped by simply installing a diode from the start terminal and ground, cathode (banded end) to start terminal

I have been running a Cole Hersee 24V switch for 3-4 years with the diode added without any issues, your mileage may very.

I use 1000V 6A diodes like these.

4pk - 1000V/6A Diodes (#6A100)` | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 4pk - 1000V/6A Diodes (#6A100)` at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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I also put them across all impedance (coil) driven devices, run solenoid, cold start solenoid, horn, you will find these on many later model HMMWVs to protect the EESS boxes and other sensitive devices.

If I was looking now I would look for a good quality marine switch rated at 36V

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I believe what causes the average key switch to fail is not only the current but the reverse EMF caused by the large solenoid.
when the start position is released the collapsing magnetic field across the solenoid creates a very large reverse EMF this creates an arc across the contacts, if the contacts are not far enough apart the arc just continues until the switch pretty much melts down.

This can be stopped by simply installing a diode from the start terminal and ground, cathode (banded end) to start terminal

I have been running a Cole Hersey 24V switch for 3-4 years with the diode added without any issues, your mileage may very.

I use 1000V 6A diodes like these.

4pk - 1000V/6A Diodes (#6A100)` | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 4pk - 1000V/6A Diodes (#6A100)` at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I also put them across all impedance (coil) driven devices, run solenoid, cold start solenoid, horn, you will find these on many later model HMMWVs to protect the EESS boxes

If I was looking now I would look for a good quality marine switch rated at 36V

no one is going to do any of that….nor are they equipped to do such, perhaps someone should just make a quality switch with the mods completed? Plug and play….it’s hard enough to get owners to check there oil let alone find and buy a quality component and go home and solder additional components Into the switch.

 

[Mogman]

Actually the military runs their diodes in series, does basically the same job as running them in parallel as I do, all you need to do is put a male and female Packard connector on a diode and put it in line with the start lead.

These would also have the cathode pointing to the starter, if you put it in backwards the truck just will not start.

Failing to have these diodes on the run solenoid, horn ect. may be one cause of smart start EESS box failures as eluded to in this HM post.

The picture is a little misleading as they have the two Packard connectors connected together.

Edit, running the diode in parallel is more effective than running them in series but running them in series is much easier to implement.

 

[Atchuuu]

no one is going to do any of that….nor are they equipped to do such, perhaps someone should just make a quality switch with the mods completed? Plug and play….it’s hard enough to get owners to check there oil let alone find and buy a quality component and go home and solder additional components Into the switch.

No no one. I will do it if it allows me to use a keyed switch safely.
It still looks stock with the key in the original switch but gives me piece of mind. Yes, I know someone who really wants to steal the truck can. Trying to keep kids and amateurs from doing so.

I pit the original switch back in and wait light flashes then goes off. Reinstalled the keyed switch and it does the same. It works fine was just concerned that all the way left is accessory but will run a relay off that to the 12v converter.

 

[Mogman]

No no one. I will do it if it allows me to use a keyed switch safely.
It still looks stock with the key in the original switch but gives me piece of mind. Yes, I know someone who really wants to steal the truck can. Trying to keep kids and amateurs from doing so.

I pit the original switch back in and wait light flashes then goes off. Reinstalled the keyed switch and it does the same. It works fine was just concerned that all the way left is accessory but will run a relay off that to the 12v converter.

I would not use that switch diode or no diode, just looking at it the body is too small to be a heavy duty switch IMHO

 

[Atchuuu]

I would not use that switch diode or no diode, just looking at it the body is too small to be a heavy duty switch IMHO

Advice taken. Thank you. Will order a new one