Newbie, need info on this truck, questions

[Hay Farmer]

Hello all, haven’t been on in years. I am looking at what I believe to be a 1986 AM General 923 (I think-its what the seller says it is) to use in a Hay Farming operation.
Found the truck locally on FB Marketplace. I know very little about this truck or these trucks in general. Don’t even know if I’m describing it correctly. Has 4500 miles on it. Tires look excellent. 8.3L Cummins/Auto and has a hardtop. Seller says about 20’ of frame behind cab. I have not gone to look yet. Its about 50 miles from me. I like that the truck is painted white.

Originally, I was looking at civilian IH or Freightliner 6x6’s at 4-10 times the cost. I don’t think I will have enough money to pursue that option anymore.

My task for the truck is to carry 8-10 4x4x8 square bales at 1700lbs each, so total load would be 14,000-18,000lbs or 7-9 tons off of hilly or muddy/soft farm fields, then over the road about 5-10 miles to a drop off point, then empty back home.

Short trips maybe 50-75 times per year.

Questions:
1. Are they hard or expensive to repair & maintain? (I already have an 8.3L Cummins-familiar with them)
2. Plan to tag the truck as a PA Farm Truck, but how will I tag the GVWR? I have my CDL, so I can drive up to 80K with air brakes, but what can these trucks be tagged up to? I’d like to carry up to 10 tons, or 20,000lbs. Can these trucks be tagged at 40K pounds? Or will I run into a problem?
3. Surprised it doesnt have a PTO winch-I thought they all did.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[98G]

Check to see if it has an 8.3. Looks to me like it'll have the NH250.

For heavy and slow off road, I'd actually prefer the NHC250.

 

[Hay Farmer]

Seller claims 8.3L Cummins with turbo.

 

[98G]

Seller claims 8.3L Cummins with turbo.

Possibly it has been transplanted, but -

1) 1986 was M923A1 with the NH250
2) visibly the truck is an M923A1 as evidenced by the fuel tank, the front shackles, the lack of CTIS, the presence of super singles, and the front axle

 

[Hay Farmer]

Thanks. This is the kind of info I need. I don’t know much about them. Here’s a pic showing I believe 240HP at 2100 RPM, I think.

 

[Hay Farmer]

What can I expect for a road speed for this truck?
How about GVWR?

 

[98G]

What can I expect for a road speed for this truck?
How about GVWR?

I've used them as silage trucks with a dump bed added and about 11k in the bed. Both the nh250 and the 8.3. Loaded like this they're very slow to accelerate up to speed.

With the 14.00R20 super singles , cruising speed is going to be 55-65mph loaded.

The axles and driveline components are easily rated for the load you'll put on them. @simp5782 will likely be along shortly and put some numbers to it, but I believe 44k is about right.

As to what you can tag it for, that's specific to PA and I have no idea.

 

[simp5782]

You can not exceed 34,000lbs on your drive axles by law. Steer axle is rated at 17k.

 

[Hay Farmer]

You can not exceed 34,000lbs on your drive axles by law. Steer axle is rated at 17k.

Is there a max GVWR?
Trying to see what my max payload would be with a 20’ steel flatbed.

Are all 3 axles rated at 17K each?

 

[fuzzytoaster]

Hello all, haven’t been on in years. I am looking at what I believe to be a 1986 AM General 923 (I think-its what the seller says it is) to use in a Hay Farming operation.
Found the truck locally on FB Marketplace. I know very little about this truck or these trucks in general. Don’t even know if I’m describing it correctly. Has 4500 miles on it. Tires look excellent. 8.3L Cummins/Auto and has a hardtop. Seller says about 20’ of frame behind cab. I have not gone to look yet. Its about 50 miles from me. I like that the truck is painted white.

Originally, I was looking at civilian IH or Freightliner 6x6’s at 4-10 times the cost. I don’t think I will have enough money to pursue that option anymore.

My task for the truck is to carry 8-10 4x4x8 square bales at 1700lbs each, so total load would be 14,000-18,000lbs or 7-9 tons off of hilly or muddy/soft farm fields, then over the road about 5-10 miles to a drop off point, then empty back home.

Short trips maybe 50-75 times per year.

Questions:
1. Are they hard or expensive to repair & maintain? (I already have an 8.3L Cummins-familiar with them)
2. Plan to tag the truck as a PA Farm Truck, but how will I tag the GVWR? I have my CDL, so I can drive up to 80K with air brakes, but what can these trucks be tagged up to? I’d like to carry up to 10 tons, or 20,000lbs. Can these trucks be tagged at 40K pounds? Or will I run into a problem?
3. Surprised it doesnt have a PTO winch-I thought they all did.

I spoke to the owner of this truck a few days ago for one of my customers. It has the cummins 250 in it.

1. Parts are available from NAPA, ebay, etc and most of it is 90's era level tech. It's just bigger than what most expect.
2. GVWR would be what the truck is rated for on the dash. The owner didn't send me a photo of it but if it's a M934 it's about 34,000 lbs giving you about 20,000 lbs of cargo capacity. They won't handle 40,000 lbs for long. The M936 wreckers are about 38K curb weight but they are double framed and have additional bracing which the extra long frames (like this) do not.
3. For the extra long frame trucks only the M928 (long cargo with winch) had it besides a few oddball specific built trucks. You can add one with off the shelf kits.

All in all it should do the work.

 

[simp5782]

Is there a max GVWR?
Trying to see what my max payload would be with a 20’ steel flatbed.

Are all 3 axles rated at 17K each?

Only the steer is a 17k axle.

Rears are a 44k rated unit.

You would have to have a scale ticket to know what weights you have on the front and the rear.

Max gvwr probably won't be more than 52k going off what I know the truck weighs vs what the axles can legally carry

 

[Hay Farmer]

I’m sorry for being so thick here.
I am probably not being clear with my question.

We need a starting point to figure out the probable payload. I don’t want to buy it an put a flatbed on it if it’s under rated for the task.

Let’s start with a hypothetical empty weight with a flatbed installed on it of 20,000lbs.
Just for example: If the truck weighed 20,000lbs empty, then what is max payload? Someone stated GVWR was 34,000lbs. Does that mean I have a 14,000lb payload? I would think so, but I really can’t understand why this truck would be rated so low at 34,000lbs.




One of the things I like about this truck is does not have CTIS which I hear is a lot more upkeep, and I would probably never use it. 6 wheel drive is more than enough.
I would probably prefer the turbocharged engine. This one appears to be the 855 NTC250. I have a tractor with an 8.3L Cummins turbo and like it.

 

[Mullaney]

I’m sorry for being so thick here.
I am probably not being clear with my question.

We need a starting point to figure out the probable payload. I don’t want to buy it an put a flatbed on it if it’s under rated for the task.

Let’s start with a hypothetical empty weight with a flatbed installed on it of 20,000lbs.
Just for example: If the truck weighed 20,000lbs empty, then what is max payload? Someone stated GVWR was 34,000lbs. Does that mean I have a 14,000lb payload? I would think so, but I really can’t understand why this truck would be rated so low at 34,000lbs.




One of the things I like about this truck is does not have CTIS which I hear is a lot more upkeep, and I would probably never use it. 6 wheel drive is more than enough.
I would probably prefer the turbocharged engine. This one appears to be the 855 NTC250. I have a tractor with an 8.3L Cummins turbo and like it.

.
Nah, not thick - Just making sure it will do the job before you hand over the money. That makes sense and it is a smart way to go about considering any sort of purchase.

The "etched in stone" answers would be on the military metal plates on the dash. Those plates will confirm what the military demanded of the vehicle when it was built according to the contract.

@simp5782 's numbers are the "hardware" numbers. In other words, he is giving you the front axle max and rear axle max numbers. The DOT folks will look at those numbers - especially if they have you at the roadside. His numbers could be higher than the military plates but they are definitely worth having/knowing. Hope that helps and good luck on your quest.

 

[chucky]

As rare to see as our trucks are for the DOT with tires theyre not used to seeing i think they will definitly add up what the weights that are written on the sidewall of the tires and get a max gross for the truck or if theyre lazy they will just say 34k on the drives and 12 or 17k on the steer so all you will be able to load on the truck maybe 15 tons but remember if your load is a natural resorce for your state like coal timber agriculture as long as you stay off federally funded roads (interstates ) most states allow you more weight ! like here we can be 92,000 hauling coal instead of 80 k everyone else is limited too ! Check with your state

 

[Hay Farmer]

I just need to haul 10 tons of large square hay bales.
Spoke with owner a bit today. Said the main headlamp switch is not working.
Confirmed it is long wheelbase model 20’ bed looks doable.
Says he was not able to find max GVWR anywhere on truck, but I was told the longer versions had frame reinforcement.
Says it has good tires-they look great in pics.
Hard top with heater
Painted white which actually matches my other trucks, thats helpful
Has higher than usual miles ~45,000
Said previous owner may have been from Wisconsin and used it over the road because it had old WI inspection/DOT decals
Unable to drive on road because theres no tags or insurance
Anything else you can suggest/help/advise would be great.

 

[WillWagner]

Just to be clear, The data plate pictured is NOT the 250hp 8.3. That is the NHC, 250 HP, Nat Asp, 855 CID engine.

 

[simp5782]

I just need to haul 10 tons of large square hay bales.
Spoke with owner a bit today. Said the main headlamp switch is not working.
Confirmed it is long wheelbase model 20’ bed looks doable.
Says he was not able to find max GVWR anywhere on truck, but I was told the longer versions had frame reinforcement.
Says it has good tires-they look great in pics.
Hard top with heater
Painted white which actually matches my other trucks, thats helpful
Has higher than usual miles ~45,000
Said previous owner may have been from Wisconsin and used it over the road because it had old WI inspection/DOT decals
Unable to drive on road because theres no tags or insurance
Anything else you can suggest/help/advise would be great.

They are rated for 5 tons offroad or 10 tons on road as stated in the operators manual.

The frame reinforcement is only a add on for in front of the axles. The springs will break before you have any frame troubles. The reinforcement is just in front of the axles. I've broken several sets of springs and had to upgrade to the wrecker springs.

Figure a 927A1 weighs 25k. Wheels and tires are rated for 9900lb each. You have a little under 59,500 capacity of tires/wheels

 

[Hay Farmer]

They are rated for 5 tons offroad or 10 tons on road as stated in the operators manual.

The frame reinforcement is only a add on for in front of the axles. The springs will break before you have any frame troubles. The reinforcement is just in front of the axles. I've broken several sets of springs and had to upgrade to the wrecker springs.

Figure a 927A1 weighs 25k. Wheels and tires are rated for 9900lb each. You have a little under 59,500 capacity of tires/wheels

Does it weigh 25k as a bare chassis alone? or do you have a body mounted?

 

[Mullaney]

Does it weigh 25k as a bare chassis alone? or do you have a body mounted?

.
The default for the 5-Ton trucks (M939 Series) are the numbers that Simp mentioned earlier. 5 Tons of Cargo offroad and 10 Tons of Cargo on paved surface roads. The military didn't really buy trucks without a body. The wrecker version (also mentioned earlier) for example is heavier than the cargo version, but the frame was doubled to allow for that.

It's not that we are dodging your questions. It's just that if you want specifics, there should be a plate on the dash like the example below. And yes, that includes the bed.

 

[DeMilitarized]

I’m sorry for being so thick here.
I am probably not being clear with my question.

We need a starting point to figure out the probable payload. I don’t want to buy it an put a flatbed on it if it’s under rated for the task.

Let’s start with a hypothetical empty weight with a flatbed installed on it of 20,000lbs.
Just for example: If the truck weighed 20,000lbs empty, then what is max payload? Someone stated GVWR was 34,000lbs. Does that mean I have a 14,000lb payload? I would think so, but I really can’t understand why this truck would be rated so low at 34,000lbs.




One of the things I like about this truck is does not have CTIS which I hear is a lot more upkeep, and I would probably never use it. 6 wheel drive is more than enough.
I would probably prefer the turbocharged engine. This one appears to be the 855 NTC250. I have a tractor with an 8.3L Cummins turbo and like it.

The ctis system often doesn’t work but is usually only due to a very minor issue. Not a super complicated system and I enjoy my ctis very much. Working in fields that may get soft I would suspect you would want ctis too. You would probably like a m923a2 or a m927a2.