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Icy Roads

thoner7

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My town is dealing with some ice and snow from this big storm that’s hit a lot of the country.

My wife jokingly asked if I’d take the humvee out today because of the snow. I didn’t, and I was just out in my F150. while driving, my ABS braking system activated a few times, and I wondered what my humvee would do? I’m too young to have driven anything with ABS.

I have a Rev 1165 and I was told it has some kind of mechanical ABS alternative? But I know nothing about the system. I’d like to know more and be more prepared for when I do take it out.

Thanks folks
 

mgFray

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My housemate borrowed my HMMWV (with the stock military tires on it) last year in a snow storm. (She drove them in the Army, so it wasn't new to her.). With that said, with the stock tires.. she said she slide through one stop sign, and ended up doing a 180 through another.. thats when she turned around came home and borrowed my Jeep.. (She only ran into these issues where the road was plowed, but icy... Where there was snow it drove solid and straight.

I've been lead to believe that with better (not military) tires, the HMMWV is a beast though.
 

TOBASH

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HMMWVs notoriously resemble curling stones on ice unless you’re very careful and know how to pump your brakes. Siping tires is a waste of time. Chains work well.

Younger drivers need to read up on pumping the brakes in a slide.
 
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Mogman

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This reminds me of when I lived in Waco where they would get icy roads from time to time, I would wrap logging chain through the holes in the rear rims of my old Int. 1 ton tow truck and go out and make a killing, many were the hot shot 4WD guys that thought THEY were going to get paid for pulling folks out:LOL::ROFLMAO:
One great storm we (Pam and I) drove to FT Worth then to Abilene to visit my sister pulling folks out all along the way, had pockets full of cash by the time we got to my sisters, we pulled the same guy out of the ditch three times on I 20, dang that was in the 70s, I am getting too old!!!
As I remember it was just as cold inside that 68 Int as it was outside:LOL:
I still have what's left out in the pasture!!
 
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thoner7

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I guess I was asking more about the “abs” system that the newer humvees have.

Before I take it out for a real world test lol
 

thoner7

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It’s not ABS…it’s to prevent lockup on panic stops.
So it’s nothing to do with road conditions?

Do you know what it’s called in the TMs, if it’s in there at all? Operators manual says to pump brakes in snow and ice, but nothing about whatever this system is.
 

Mogman

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So it’s nothing to do with road conditions?

Do you know what it’s called in the TMs, if it’s in there at all? Operators manual says to pump brakes in snow and ice, but nothing about whatever this system is.
All of us old folks grew up "pumping" the brakes under limited traction conditions, then they came out with ABS which can be confused by pumping the brakes so they then taught everyone not to pump the brakes.
If you have lost traction and are sliding usually the best thing is to get the hell off the brakes and try to regain steering which you will NEVER do as long as you have your foot planted on the brake pedal and try to steer your way out of trouble.
 

m1010plowboy

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Best question of the season......Get out in the prairies, away from curbs, go fast and practice stopping / steering on ice. I was not happy when the computer took over control of my need to drift around every corner or manage suspension compression going into a corner. Once you get the feel of 'being' the anti-lock computer while on ice, you'll just keep getting better. I still shut the computers off any chance I get because they take away the 'feel' of owning the road.

Keeping the situational awareness high when on ice is key. You're simply managing the mass and speed to allow controlled stops with the adhesive factors at hand. Once stopping distance on ice is calculated a person can increase awareness by looking far enough down the road to avoid all future hazards coming our way. Knowing what to do when the surprises come and what to do after an incident is also real important.

Get in a quiet, private, icy parking lot, get up to 30, tromp on the brakes hard, measure stopping distance. Then start 'feathering' the brake and practicing foot pressure to traction sensitivity....... Then do 35, then 40........Learn what foot pressure is required to apply brake pressure but still allow steering. Steering while braking is the big big key. Over-braking will cause the mass to continue in the direction of travel and you'll slide without control. Steering on ice at 100mph is possible so knowing the limits and traction coefficient of the beast you're driving is key.

After the first 22 years of rear wheel drive, bias ply, no anti-locking nothin', 8-track tapes, in 8 months of winter, a fella gets good at using your senses to keep the brakes from locking......allowing one to steer away from hazards....... After the last 22 years with 4x4/ 6x6. anti-lock, cruise control, traction control, launch control.........fm radio....... I still shut off traction control and prefer to race with my senses and not the computer. The computers are better these days but humans function just fine without them.

At the same time while on ice, we are constantly evaluating 'Escape" zones and pricing out the cheapest thing to hit when surprises come. Pops always told us to stay right, hit the right ditch if we're in trouble, hit trees or bushes instead of property, keep a window breaking tool in your pocket so when you go in the lake there's a chance you can get back out. Surprises happen mostly from not being attentive but if a fella knows that hammering on the brakes is less effective than steering out of a bad situation, you can avoid those parked cars and hit the guard rail/ trees/ light post/ instead. Avoiding the passenger compartment in an incident isn't something a person would consider practicing. If you're heading into an accident, skidding in a straight line towards the passenger door with babies behind it.....lifting the brake pedal for just a split second can allow one to steer towards the engine or trunk and reduce human harm.

Most of my incidents are in corners and braking too late which is a surprise because others say they slide through intersections. There is a 'sweet spot' where the tires grab while turning in a corner covered in ice. It's that difference between 'plowing' (going straight/ under-steer) and over-steer which will snap that back-end around.

We ice race everything up here and Bondurant teaches brake application to 'load' the front suspension causing down-force on the front rubber. Teaching the foot to push hard enough to keep traction is where car control begins. Practicing speed/ weight / steering control and road condition evaluation is the best way to gain confidence on ice. https://bondurantracingschool.com/

The other thing Pops always taught was to avoid the ice. When stopping at an intersection move out of the icy tracks just enough to grab some of the loose snow beside the ice track. Loose snow provides traction so it helps a person stop and gives you traction for a better launch when the Tesla pulls up beside you at the red light.

I heard some HUMVEE instruction included learning to 2 foot the pedals so you're applying brake and throttle at the same time. Pop's taught us in the 60's to keep the left foot over the brake and right foot on the throttle. Depending on the vehicle, applying foot brake or light e-brake application while stuck can provide -posi-track- to the rear diff for better traction.

Tires do make a slight difference on ice and I find a deep lug was always best. We try not to drive on the ice and drive in the deep snow beside the driving lane so a deep lug wins for us. The softer rubber tires and the 7degree rule might help some folks so it's a great marketing idea. All this fancy/expensive new technology for ice might build perceived confidence but once you're sliding, you're sliding.

Situational awareness for bridge decks, corners, intersections......and lately the far side of over-passes......... is real important to avoid those panic.....loooooong.....slides before impact.

Last year while on a crowned, icy, country road, doin' 50mph..... the back end of my shiny new truck started trying to lead the drive. There was nothing expensive around so I just did my best to steer/ throttle....no brake......just feel that front rubber and the 'sweet spot' where it starts to grab. I didn't over-steer, just gently counter-drifted the back end until it stopped trying to lead and eventually the tires hooked again.

I really dig 4x4 but they tend to "push" .....go straight... when going into a corner. Depending on the 4x, throttle can often be your friend even when in a panic stop. If the 4x is trying to turn while under braking, sometimes 'burping' the throttle can help the rubber find the sweet spot.

It's time to go do some ice racing. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KfGullpgW7Y
 

peggrw

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This morning eased down the steep mountain driveway in 10" of snow without even noticing. Then I drove for awhile through the lower field just for fun. Tried to go back up the driveway to the house and only got about 500 ft before it lost traction and started sliding backwards down the hill. Luckily it missed all the trees and ended up in a deep ditch. It's true what they say, the HMMWV really sucks in slippery conditions but when you end up in the ditch it easily drives right out. The plan was to park my everyday vehicles down the hill by the main road when it snows and use the HMMWV to get me there. Ordered tire chains this afternoon.
 

Thunderbirds

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This morning eased down the steep mountain driveway in 10" of snow without even noticing. Then I drove for awhile through the lower field just for fun. Tried to go back up the driveway to the house and only got about 500 ft before it lost traction and started sliding backwards down the hill. Luckily it missed all the trees and ended up in a deep ditch. It's true what they say, the HMMWV really sucks in slippery conditions but when you end up in the ditch it easily drives right out. The plan was to park my everyday vehicles down the hill by the main road when it snows and use the HMMWV to get me there. Ordered tire chains this afternoon.
.

Well, it is that time of year, again. We took the M1123 out for a drive on western South Dakotas' fresh 2" snow yesterday, mostly just to see how the truck handles, especially the "load range E" Bajas.

Well, we got to enjoy a 50 mile roundtrip through Spearfish, backroads to Deadwood, Sturgis then back home. My wife had a blast, me however had sweaty palms most of the time. Growing up in Germany I am used to winter driving, and living here in the Black Hills for the last 22 years only adds to my experience level, however the compacted snow/ice is where I had most my issues. Even though I was able to come to stops in neighborhoods on packed snow, I did slide a bit into intersections before I was able to correctly gauge the stopping distance adequately. The touchy brake system didn't really help much, but we got through all of that.

Once we had that down, I wanted to take a service road connection between two towns, but turned around after a mile. Mainly because the truck wanted to break out and start into a spin while straight driving, even speed, no acceleration at all. The road was 100 % covered in packed snow, mostly ice. Being out in nowhere-land, I opted for the dry I-90 instead to get back to the house.

I would imagine the truck wouldn't have any problems if the snow is 3" or more, but once it is compacted, I would have a hard time on hard asphalt streets. Gravel roads (which we have plenty around here) is not a problem at all, as long as there is some sort of aggregate sticking out a bit.

Soooo, long story short, what are your favorite style of chains/cables for the HMMWV? How do you like your brand, and where did you get them for a decent price to quality value? Do you have horror stories, i.e. what to stay away from?

Hope this info will help other newbs out to get ready for this winters' fun...


EDIT, to add a pic for @Mogman's viewing pleasure of the first light today in the Hills.
 

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Coug

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.

Well, it is that time of year, again. We took the M1123 out for a drive on western South Dakotas' fresh 2" snow yesterday, mostly just to see how the truck handles, especially the "load range E" Bajas.

Well, we got to enjoy a 50 mile roundtrip through Spearfish, backroads to Deadwood, Sturgis then back home. My wife had a blast, me however had sweaty palms most of the time. Growing up in Germany I am used to winter driving, and living here in the Black Hills for the last 22 years only adds to my experience level, however the compacted snow/ice is where I had most my issues. Even though I was able to come to stops in neighborhoods on packed snow, I did slide a bit into intersections before I was able to correctly gauge the stopping distance adequately. The touchy brake system didn't really help much, but we got through all of that.

Once we had that down, I wanted to take a service road connection between two towns, but turned around after a mile. Mainly because the truck wanted to break out and start into a spin while straight driving, even speed, no acceleration at all. The road was 100 % covered in packed snow, mostly ice. Being out in nowhere-land, I opted for the dry I-90 instead to get back to the house.

I would imagine the truck wouldn't have any problems if the snow is 3" or more, but once it is compacted, I would have a hard time on hard asphalt streets. Gravel roads (which we have plenty around here) is not a problem at all, as long as there is some sort of aggregate sticking out a bit.

Soooo, long story short, what are your favorite style of chains/cables for the HMMWV? How do you like your brand, and where did you get them for a decent price to quality value? Do you have horror stories, i.e. what to stay away from?

Hope this info will help other newbs out to get ready for this winters' fun...


EDIT, to add a pic for @Mogman's viewing pleasure of the first light today in the Hills.
So far I've only used the military HMMWV snow chains on my truck. They did a good job on ice covered snow, but I imagine there are better options out there.
One of these years I plan to finally buy a second set of tires and get studs installed into them for winter driving and off road recoveries, because even though there is plenty of room to install chains I'd rather not if I don't need to.
 

Thunderbirds

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So far I've only used the military HMMWV snow chains on my truck. They did a good job on ice covered snow, but I imagine there are better options out there.
One of these years I plan to finally buy a second set of tires and get studs installed into them for winter driving and off road recoveries, because even though there is plenty of room to install chains I'd rather not if I don't need to.
.
Where did you get them from? Are there any brand markings or anything?
 

Coug

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Where did you get them from? Are there any brand markings or anything?
My chains came from a buddy that was still active duty and had access to the turn in area where stuff went before it was disposed of.

Looks like all the regular vendors for HMMWV parts don't have any in stock.

The closest to what the military ones look like are probably these. They don't have cams to tighten them, so you do have to adjust them after you drive forward a bit, then check on them again later. Only real difference is to retighten involves undoing the main lock link on the end, rather than just tightening up some cams.


There does seem to be a decent variety of tire chains for 37x12.5R16.5 so all you have to do is search for them


I have a couple other sets of chains I cut down from military semi truck chains and doubled the number of cross links on them, so they are massively heavy and rarely get installed.
I've found just the regular set on the front to be enough for most activities.
 

Mainsail

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Back when I had my '86 Ranger (no ABS) I was driving home from work on the freeway and some knucklehead in a rice burner passed me on the right. I was only going 5 over (so 65mph) because it was raining. The road curves to the left and the left lane goes to Tacoma and the right goes to Puyallup, so he was going the long-way around me. As he swapped lanes he lost it and started fishtailing all over the road....

I'm closing on him at 65mph and lock up the brakes and now I'm sliding off the left side of the highway because it's crowned to let the water run off. So as I got close to the left-side guardrail I let up on the brake pedal to regain directional control, then lock them up again as I still have too much smash on the rice burner. This repeated four or five times before he slid backwards into the left-side guardrail and I passed him.

Yes, pumping the brakes is a valuable skill.

Counter that to the Crown Vic police interceptor I had later, where some lady in a minivan decides she wants to be where I am (at 50mph) and locking up the brakes in that car - crap it stopped so fast I was surprised the engine didn't tear loose and fly out the front of the car.
 

Mogman

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Back when I had my '86 Ranger (no ABS) I was driving home from work on the freeway and some knucklehead in a rice burner passed me on the right. I was only going 5 over (so 65mph) because it was raining. The road curves to the left and the left lane goes to Tacoma and the right goes to Puyallup, so he was going the long-way around me. As he swapped lanes he lost it and started fishtailing all over the road....

I'm closing on him at 65mph and lock up the brakes and now I'm sliding off the left side of the highway because it's crowned to let the water run off. So as I got close to the left-side guardrail I let up on the brake pedal to regain directional control, then lock them up again as I still have too much smash on the rice burner. This repeated four or five times before he slid backwards into the left-side guardrail and I passed him.

Yes, pumping the brakes is a valuable skill.

Counter that to the Crown Vic police interceptor I had later, where some lady in a minivan decides she wants to be where I am (at 50mph) and locking up the brakes in that car - crap it stopped so fast I was surprised the engine didn't tear loose and fly out the front of the car.
I was riding with a young man on a Houston highway when he felt the steering "go away" as we started to hydroplane, he immediately planted all 150lb on the brake pedal, so here we go heading straight for the barrier in a Y in the highway, I had to repeatedly scream at him to get off the fn brakes, he finally did and he regained steering and we went on our marry way.
Growing up in San Antonio you learn that lesson real early, much of the asphalt back in the day was made with soapstone type of aggregate, when it rained the roads literally had a "sudsy" surface, much fun!!
 
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