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So the MTVR adventure begins

IridiumRed

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NW MO, north of KC
I think it's the water pump, but haven't been able to locate the exact spot yet. For how big these trucks are the engine bay is pretty tight, not the mention everything is covered in rubber guards.
So external leak then? If so, thats generally good (better than the alternative) - way less chance of having major damage / causing major damage (liks coolant in oil corroding bearings). Way less mess to clean up...

Theres a weep hole on water pump (like on so many vehicles), where if the internal seals start to go and coolant starts to leak tgru they let it leak to outside (through weep hole), rather than leak inside of engine.... off the top of my head i dont remember where weep hole is but it might not be hard to overlook (esp w everything covered up)
 

aw113sgte

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So I found the issue with the coolant in oil. The coolant heater I installed is too long and damaged the cooler core, allowing coolant to pass. This is going to cost a few thousand for a new cooler and hours of time. Not pleased. At least the truck hasn't been started since I put in the heater.

So as a warning to all others...the 860556 part number as shown in this video WILL destroy your oil cooler.

The CORRECT part number is 3500013. I very much regret not doing my own verification of the part number.
1738535576103.png

1738535652023.jpeg
1738535664396.jpeg

1738535633960.jpeg1738535676318.jpeg
 

IridiumRed

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Location
NW MO, north of KC
Damn!

Well, I was right about the oil cooler leaking from the back end, but sorry to hear about how it STARTED leaking on that end.

Its good you didn't run the engine, you've probably avoided a potentially BIG bill from that.

Whats crazy is, I just ordered a block heater for my 7ton, in fact it just arrived a day or two ago. You can be certain i'll be checking the part # on that! :) (and double checking the length before putting anything in there)

BY THE WAY - I went online and did some quick searching, i think I found 4 used coolers for sale, in the $300 to $400 range. I sent you a PM. I have no relationship to the sellers, but just thought i'd try to help you out (since they are Ebay auctions, I didn't want to post the links in the thread here, figured PM would be more appropriate). Could have found more, was just doing a quick search. The part# you want for the cooler is 115-4517. I think they were used on other trucks too

If it were me, Id feel comfortable putting a used cooler on my truck. They seem to be fairly durable (finding a bunch of used ones for sale says a lot... if they fail all the time, the used parts inventory gets sucked up quick. And if Dorman makes a new one, you know the original wasn't worth a S**t (and the replacement might not be that great either!)

Hmm. looks like some of the resutls i sent you were for 115-4514. Not sure what the difference is vs 115-4517. whoops

Anyways, there are some used ones out there for much cheaper (and looks like there are some aftermarket ones too, not sure on mfg)
 

IridiumRed

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Location
NW MO, north of KC
Btw, 0R8191 (thats a zero, not O character) is for sure a good part #, it indicates a cat remanufactured part (hence the part # style and the R in the number)

Interestingly, one source here shows 115-4514 as being interchangeable. One of the larger aftermarket parts suppliers. Id call it.... 50/50 that it would work. Lots more 115-4514 around used for sale at low prices . If it were me, id be tempted to grab one of them, since your old cooler is out, would be easy to compare the two, know if new one would work... but thats just me (this is since 115-4514 seems to sell for much cheaper used). If it didnt work, you could always turn around and resell for what you paid.

There are some new aftermarket ones for sale as well. Quality? Well thats a whole different question.... wide range of quality in aftermarket parts for cat stuff. I mostly work on internationals, and the OEM stuff is often near garbage, i mainly only really try to get OEM for some of the sensors / other electronic gear, maybe some seals. For the rest, i often go aftermarket, its usually not WORSE then the garbage international puts out (oftentimes the ORIGINAL DESIGN IS COMPLETE GARBAGE!!! DESIGNED BY IDIOTS, BUILT BY MONKEYS!!). I hate internationals. I can often point to the old part, point to the design flaw that made it fail.... happens almost everyday it seems.

Cat stuff is a whole 'nother league, great designs, great parts quality.
I really like cat.


Which way you go is your call. Let us know how things work out!

As a sidenote, whenever i need parts the first thing i do is just google search (or whatever sesrch engine you prefer) "cat 115-4517 for sale". That gives me a bunch of results fast, from a lot of different suppliers, including ebay and other suppliers, gives me nice mix of used and new parts.

Its very common for me to buy new parts that are NOS sitting on someones shelf / OEM new but opened package, etc. Im careful about that, on ebay i look closely at the sellers feedback rating, and whether it makes sense that they would be selling this item this way (like, if its "OEM new, open package", it doesnt make a lot of sense if they have 100 of them for sale. 1 or 2 makes sense to me.

What im always trying to watch out for is if there are cheap aftermarket parts out there that might be junk, someone could take one of those and slip it into the box / package, claim its "oem open box". Hence why reputation of seller means a lot to me.

As a sidenote, most of the stuff i work on is a small fleet of garbage trucks, or my own projects / projects for friends. Everyone is very cost conscious, so taking risks on used parts/aftermarket suppliers is often very worth it... if i was just running business fixing trucks for third party strangers, it would be harder to justify not going OEM new parts, esp if they were OTR trucks that could be on other side of country if they break down.

Damn i write a book sometimes. I just like to share my mindset on why i do what i do, because it helps explain what i do, how i handle things... because sometimes it makes sense for someone else, sometimes it doesnt. And for guys working on their own trucks, doing their own work (not paying someone else for labor), that use-case fits in pretty well w my situation, so the way i find parts may make sense for them too.

ANYWAYS! When i saw you lamenting over "spending thousands" fixing this (cat parts online shows $2045 for new one, so you werent wrong), i thought id dive in, try to make situation suck less if i could :)

One last thing, "while youre in there" with truck opened up, lots of drained fluids, theres a few parts in that oil filter module that might be worth replacing, doesnt cost a lot, doesnt take that long. I can provide part #s later if anyone is interested (mainly its related to the valving in there that controls oil flow, pressure for certain conditions, can always have a bit of crud in there / may have springs that can weaken over time...)
 

IridiumRed

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
85
84
18
Location
NW MO, north of KC
So I found the issue with the coolant in oil. The coolant heater I installed is too long and damaged the cooler core, allowing coolant to pass. This is going to cost a few thousand for a new cooler and hours of time. Not pleased. At least the truck hasn't been started since I put in the heater.

So as a warning to all others...the 860556 part number as shown in this video WILL destroy your oil cooler.

The CORRECT part number is 3500013. I very much regret not doing my own verification of the part number.
View attachment 940135

View attachment 940137
Can you do me a favor and measure the heater? Putting it next to a ruler is fine. Would like to have that as a reference, want to make sure i can identify the ones that dont work :)
 

IridiumRed

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
NW MO, north of KC
The little hose that goes between the cooler and the water pump, i'd get that (so easy to do when cooler is off)

131-6645

Thats a big pill to have to swallow. At least you caught it quick, before it ate the engine

Thanks for measurement of element
 

IridiumRed

Member
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Location
NW MO, north of KC
I THINK this is a picture of the INCORRECT heater. (113, let me know if i'm wrong on this).

Also, not trying to kick you while you're down or anything, by beating this horse to death, just trying to make sure we all know which heater to use / not use

I just bought a heater, its at the shop / i'm at home (recovering from dental work), so can't check it, but mine isn't a zero start, so the zero start #'s aren't applicable. So been wondering if mine will work. (I -think- it will, its got an element thats folded back on itself, so its at least somewhat shorter.... and the "wrong one" was only a little bit too long as well, doesn't need HUGE difference in length).

So been trying to figure out whether the heater i have will work (or if i need to order another), so since I was doing some research and had this stuff pulled up, thought i'd just share it with the forum, in case it saves someone else. And, helps identify whats correct (or not), w/o referencing part #'s

INCORRECT heater for C12 jpg.jpg
 

IridiumRed

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
NW MO, north of KC
Heres the heater i have (copied from the ezbay auction i bought it from). I THINK this will work, but i do not KNOW that it will work, so anyone else out there, dont just go and get another one like this based on what i've said! I'm putting this image here as an illustration of the difference, if nothing else. I think the correct zero start heater has an element which is bent back like this one, doubling it up, making it a bit shorter (and based on some measurements I took from screen, i'm guessing mine is about 1" shorter then the incorrect one.. which sounds about right...)

If i find out this is incorrect I'll come back and edit this post (and i'm not mentioning the part# of mine yet in case it isn't the correct one). If this turns out to be incorrect, I think its at least the right STYLE

Again, i was doing this research for myself, figured it might be helpful to others so i'd go ahead and share with everyone else

Cat C12 Heater - maybe correct jpg.jpg
 

IridiumRed

Member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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84
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Location
NW MO, north of KC
Perfect, thanks for the extra detail. Hopefully, maybe we help prevent someone else from doing same. Is a VERY easy mistake to make (if the element was much longer, the threads wouldn't have even started, would have been obvious.... and just LOOKING at it, it looks like it would work). Thats what makes this such an insidious issue... i could have made same mistake myself, and I try to be pretty careful about working on things
 
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