Starting new thread for same old problem.....

[Brad]

HAd a thread going on fuel pump and carburator, but am still having trouble. Spent some time today trying to find out what could be wrong?
My Son's M135 will start right up, and seems to idle fime. I was thinking fuel all along, but then maybe condenser? Would run down the road just great, then shut off, but then start right back up and run fine for a while? Then shut off again.??
So here is what I did today. It started up and I was feeding it gas, just above idle. It strted to sputter and miss, and shut off. I was giving it enough gas that would seem to be the same as if cruising on level road at medium speed. It would then start right back up, and after a couple minutes playing with the throttle I could get it to stall again.
Then I noticed something. After it stalled, I could not hear the fuel pump running. If I shut everything down and turned the power back on the pump would run. But after it would stall, no pump running. However once after a few minutes, the pump just came back on by itself. I had not shut the ignition or power switch off.
Does the fuel pump shut itself down if there is enough fuel un the float of the carb?
Also, I took the top off the carb and the float area was full of fuel?
I have a couple sets of points and condensers ordered, and am going to order a set of plugs, But I am really perplexed???
Thanks for any help in advance

 

[NDT]

Pump runs any time the ignition is on.

 

[williamh]

I had an m135 and when the condenser was bad it had no spark , it didn’t just die it would start missing real bad and burn the points. And yes the pump should run always when turned on. You might want to buy a cheep electric fuel pump and put it on , like $15.00 on Amazon. Should be able to pull past the pump or use a fuel can with the pump and connect to the carb to see if the issue goes away.

 

[rustystud]

I had an m135 and when the condenser was bad it had no spark , it didn’t just die it would start missing real bad and burn the points. And yes the pump should run always when turned on. You might want to buy a cheep electric fuel pump and put it on , like $15.00 on Amazon. Should be able to pull past the pump or use a fuel can with the pump and connect to the carb to see if the issue goes away.

Agree with "williamh" about the condenser. When I was a young man all gasoline vehicles had "points and condensers" . No such thing as HEI or any electronic ignition. One major "give away" in your statement was the engine would fire back up after stopping. The condensers job is to "absorb" the electrical current from the points, and discharge it to ground. When they become "saturated" they can no longer absorb any current. When the condenser becomes old it can no longer quickly discharge the current and becomes saturated. So when it shuts down it discharges it's "charge" and can quickly restart.

 

[Brad]

Thanks so much to all. I was looking at elec fuel pumps on line. Some said that they would stop at a certain high pressure. That's why I thought perhaps that is what mine is doing?
Also, there are what appear to be, three "condensers" in this distributor? Although I believe I know one of them is actually a resistor to lower the voltage to the points?
After your description of what that condenser is supposed to do, it sounds like that may be the trouble. Sure hope so.
Thanks again, and please keep the help coming?

 

[NDT]

The condenser that dies is the one right next to the points on the breaker plate. Mine once crapped out at 58 mph and the engine backfired so severely it blew my muffler into pieces. Happened late at night on I-45 downtown Houston elevated. I was able to limp to a safe location.

 

[Brad]

I am so frustrated with this truck. So the elec fuel pump, not the original but an after market one does stp running at times, seems like when the carb may be full. We turn on the ignition and the pump runs awhile and then stops (Engine not running) just power on. I tap on the pump and it runs, I jiggle wires and it runs. So we found what seemed like a bad ground wire connection and bolted it to a clean spot on the frame.
Took a ride 50 55 MPH no trouble. Then it just shuts off. Starts right back up. Shuts off after a half a mile or so, all the time running great, then shuts off?
So maybe a bad wire? I don't know, they are so hard to get to. The new points came this evening but I am too tired to put the condenser in, but will tomorrow if I am able.
Any ideas, help is greatly appriciated. There is no one around here to even pay to fix this thing!!??

 

[rustystud]

Put in the new points and condenser. Then let us know how it runs.

 

[Brad]

Folks, I started to install the new points and condener. I removed the dist cap and as I was checking all the wires to make sure they were all tight, and not grounding out, the wire from what the manual calls IGNITION COIL CAPACITOR, pulled right up out of the capacitor!! It was not even faintly attached inside.
So I am thinking that this was makeing contact most of the time, but then losing contact and shutting the truck down?
I took one from an old distributor and installed it. I did not replace the points or condener yet, as if I did, and it was fixed I really would not know what the problem had been? One thing at a time I think and then I will know?
Could this be the problem?
As always, thanks.

 

[Mullaney]

Folks, I started to install the new points and condener. I removed the dist cap and as I was checking all the wires to make sure they were all tight, and not grounding out, the wire from what the manual calls IGNITION COIL CAPACITOR, pulled right up out of the capacitor!! It was not even faintly attached inside.
So I am thinking that this was makeing contact most of the time, but then losing contact and shutting the truck down?
I took one from an old distributor and installed it. I did not replace the points or condener yet, as if I did, and it was fixed I really would not know what the problem had been? One thing at a time I think and then I will know?
Could this be the problem?
As always, thanks.

.
Yep! Having a spare set of points and condenser is always a good thing...
Definitely GOOD that you found the cap with a loose wire.

And even better that you stopped there to test against what you found.
Yeah, I know points and condenser aren't big buck items - but not firing the parts cannon is a big plus!

 

[Brad]

If this proves to have been the problem I am going to get another capacitor, as well as that wire wrapped voltage reducer as spares. I won't really be able to know if I have found the problem until my Son gets home from work? He will take it for a ride and then we'll know. I cannot getup in the truck with out a step ladder as I have a leg problem. I could do that, but then if I broke down, I could not get down out!
Getting old is NOT FOR SISSYS!!
Got my fingers crossed!

 

[Brad]

Well........ it is still shutting off. As always, runs just great, but shuts off. Then starts right back up?
So tomorrow, install new points and condenser.
But I have to ask, what does that capacitor even do?? HAd to be bad as the wire was not even connected? But it is acting just the same? Unless the old one I just installed is also bad!?
This is crazy!

 

[rustystud]

deleted

 

[Brad]

Sir, (I saw your message forwarded to my regular e-mail). I was asking regarding the capactor that connects to the coil, not the condenser on the points plate? That capacitor to the coil is what the wire pulled out from. My first chore this afternoon will be to replace those points and condenser.
Thank you for your help, I need it.

 

[glcaines]

I once had a similar problem with a vehicle, but not an MV. The engine would suddenly stop running but would start right back up after the car stopped moving. The dealer couldn't find the problem. I didn't know if it was fuel or spark and the dealer was worthless. I ended up taking a very old timing light I had and tied it to the windshield wiper arm in front of the windshield. I then wired it to one of the spark plug wires and the other lead to ground. I then went for a ride. As I drove down the road I could clearly see the timing light flashing. Suddenly, the engine quit firing, but I could clearly see that the timing light was still flashing as the engine slowed down to a stop, meaning that I still had spark and the problem had to be fuel-related. It turned out to be a bad fuel pump relay.
If after installing the new points and condenser you still have the problem, you might want to try the procedure I outlined above.

 

[Brad]

Well I just installed new points, condenser and rotor. Will not start. In fact, soon as we tried it turned over a few times, and THE BATTERYS WENT DEAD. So now I am doubting everything I did?
I am putting a charger on it, and going to remove dist cap and recheck all I did. Maybe I have something touching inside the distributor?
These are pretty new batteries, they are only a couple years old and have never went dead. Plus two of them to a 12 V starter?
Or maybe the generator is not charging? And if so, could that be why it keeps shutting off?