Engine Death Knell... ?

[Refalgren]

Today, I went to start my M1008, and It made an incredible grinding racket, instead of turning over normally. I am currently unsure what damage is or has been done. My room mate commented that it sounded like I have vapor locked my engine, and was severely chewing up my flexplate/flywheel. That would be plausible to explain the grinding noise. Any ideas on this end, or should I have someone take a look at it FTF?

 

[Westech]

sounds like a starter fly wheel problem. Go punch your Room mate in the head on vapor lock. That just blocks the flow of fuel to the engine.

Hydro Lock is what stops a engine from turning. That is when fluid has filled the cylinder and as we all know fluids do not compress. But if that had happened the started would engage the fly wheel and not turn.. just go Clunk/click.

 

[hippiedude]

You might want to check out your starter , it could be lose or have a broken bolt....... Tim

 

[fobrat]

I would have to say Westech is right. does sound like starter and fly wheel are bad. You'll have to replace both. Sounds like a flat spot in fly wheel. Turn the engine over by hand at the crank, sould only have to turn it 1/4 turn or so and should start right up, though it will sound real bad when turning it over. but then it be running so you can move to be worked on.

 

[hobie237]

+1 on the roommate being an idiot and deserving a punch in the face. Vapor lock is mostly an issue with carburetors, and aircraft. It also wouldn't cause much in the way of permanent damage, if it would cause any damage at all. And it's something that happens when fuel boils. Even in Georgia, I doubt it's that hot this time of year.

Anyhoo, sounds like a starter binding/not meshing with the flexplate. More than likely it's loose or whatever. Have you tried it since?

 

[Refalgren]

If its a issue with the flywheel/starter meshing, then it is probably the death knell of my flywheel. It was damaged before, by the previous, incorrect starter. current starter is the updated, aluminum motor body, correct GM starter. Pricey bastage at around $350. Hope I didn't damage it too

 

[Russ]

Saw a bone head destroy his flywheel when his engine was HYDROLOCKED but not vapor locked.

 

[Max Power]

I have also had kind of the same problem. I just got my m1009 and it makes the same grinding sound, which I figured was a problem with the starter or flywheel. It has now gotten so bad that after it makes the grinding noise it sounds like the starter breaks free from the flywheel and it just spins without turning the engine over.

Then I will finally get it to start and turn over if the starter and flywheel match up for long enough, but it will soon die, acts like it is being starved of fuel. After doing this a couple times it will start right up, run at high rpms for about 3 minutes, then go to low rpms and run like a champ. Once I have done this it will start right up every time.

I havent dug into it yet but since it seems like multiple problems im sure I will have to dig into the starter and see if im getting air in the fuel system somehwere.

Has anyone ran into anything like this?

 

[hobie237]

Saw a bone head destroy his flywheel when his engine was HYDROLOCKED but not vapor locked.

If the flywheel was all he destroyed, he was extremely lucky. The hydrolock damage that I've seen was mostly internal, including things like bent rods, or rods tossed through the side of the block.

I have also had kind of the same problem. I just got my m1009 and it makes the same grinding sound, which I figured was a problem with the starter or flywheel. It has now gotten so bad that after it makes the grinding noise it sounds like the starter breaks free from the flywheel and it just spins without turning the engine over.

Then I will finally get it to start and turn over if the starter and flywheel match up for long enough, but it will soon die, acts like it is being starved of fuel. After doing this a couple times it will start right up, run at high rpms for about 3 minutes, then go to low rpms and run like a champ. Once I have done this it will start right up every time.

I havent dug into it yet but since it seems like multiple problems im sure I will have to dig into the starter and see if im getting air in the fuel system somehwere.

Has anyone ran into anything like this?

Yeah, my truck is doing something similar. The grinding on mine is infrequent enough (like once a month in daily usage) for me to forget about it and never get around to diagnosing it. The start/die issue is a problem, because on cold days, I can drain the batteries before it'll re-fire and stay going, so I have to jump the truck.

I'll get around to diagnosing this stuff, um, when I get to it. I did find that it's not hard to jump the CUCV from a 12v car, just connect the 12v car battery to the second battery for 30 seconds or so, then the first battery, then crank. It'll dies pretty quick, and I'd skip the glow plugs, just use starting fluid. Oh, and that's how I mitigate the other issue too, the starting fluid can keep it going long enough for good fuel delivery to occur. Just don't mix starting fluid with glow plugs.

High idle/low idle is perfectly normal.

 

[fobrat]

They are not hydrolock problems, if you take the fly wheel out and look at it, the starter only strikes the fly wheel in 4 spots. that is why some times it does it and some times it doesn't. You will have to replace the starter and fly wheel. Tryed just relacing the fly wheel before and had no luck, ended up replacing it anyway. You can get a 24v starter form NAPA part#246-5042. its about $185 plus core. It is a starter fly wheel problem and nothing else.

 

[Max Power]

Cool thanks!

 

[dependable]

Sometimes you just have to replace your flex plate and starter drive. Especially if you or the previous owner had an poorly mounted starter. At some point it will grind at all flywheel contact points.(flex plate on an automatic) It's not hard ,but is time consuming. Use new parts, for the labor is the biggest cost.

 

[tennmogger]

There might not be total starter and ring meltdown here. Suggest you remove the starter, inspect the starter ring on the flex plate, and see what damage was done. Look at the Bendix gear on the starter and see if it's worn off. Those symptoms can simply be poor engagement of the Bendix due to lack of lubrication on the shaft. If you find the ring gear is not worn out, then starter service is needed. Might be just a Bendix lube problem.

That problem of engine starting then dying sounds like air making it's way into the fuel source ahead of the injection pump. The pump will have fuel in it and the truck will start, but then the slug of air hits the IP and the truck dies. Cranking will restore the fuel flow, forcing out the air, and the truck will be fine until it sits a long time. Look for loose connections, rusted pinholes in tubing, cracked hoses, etc, ahead of the IP. I have a 7.3 IDI NA that does this if parked headed uphill. Fuel gets pulled the many feet from the tank so there's no fuel leak. Haven't found the air ingress point yet so I park it headed downhill!

 

[Max Power]

Great info! Thanks! This forum is totally helping with the overwhelmed feeling I had for a while.

 

[Somemedic]

I spoke to a chevy mechanic at a large dealership today about this very problem.

I go through starters about every 6 months or so. They are autozone cheapies with lifetime warranties so I aint too worried about it. When I first got the truck the (flywheel or flexplate) had a triangular pattern on it. They were worn out teeth where the starter wouldnt engage. You would have to pop the hood, grab a socket and wrench the crank pulley for it to start. Not cool on a first date.

I had the flywheel changed (diesel flywheel) and replaced the starter. Works fine for awhile but have had horrendus luck with starters. Lots of broken starter bolts. Then someone mentioned that there was supposed to be a support bracket on the end of the starter. Low and behold mine was missing so I proccured one. I broke another bolt not to long ago, theyre not hard to get out with ez outs or even a strong arm and a sharp screwdriver. You must replace the bolts though with the 6.2 diesel motor starter bolts and not the autozone chevy 350 starter bolts. They are too long.

So Im in the stealership today to buy spare starter bolts (go figure) and I ask for the shop foreman. I tell him about the starter-bolt breaking dillema. He said if the fly wheel is old to replace it. I told him mine was replaced sometime ago. He then says that if the guide dowels arent in the plate it will allow the plate to shift and cause the excess torque on the starter. Im guessing I have 1 dowel broken or missing or I may need to retorque the flex plate bolts, one may be loose allowing for just a little play.

or maybe I have 24v going to a 12v starter? Shop guy said that wouldnt be a big deal either. The 12v is heavier duty than the 24v... go figure?

My starter sounds like its getting ready to go out again. We will see

 

[hobie237]

AutoZone cheapy starters are 12v. You are whacking them with 24v. That is your problem. It seems quite unrelated to the rest of the discussion here.

The 12v is "heavier duty" in the sense that it carries more amperage to make up the same power to start the engine with the lower voltage. It's not, though, set up for repeated applications of 24v power. Whoever told you that it wasn't a big deal has no concept of how electric motors work.

If you want to use 12v starters, just convert the truck to 12v.

 

[Somemedic]

I was under the impression that the 12/24 starter conversion was made, though I wouldnt wanna bet my life on it. However while the general story is long winded Im under the impression it is spot on as to the poster's problem. His starter is taking a dump, gonna need another, could convert to 12v and solve future cost/availability issues. Just was pointing out the flex plate could also be an issue.