Deuce Rear Hub Runs Hot

[5tonpuller]

gringeltaube: Would turning down the seal on a lathe work as well? Probably more work and would have to try a few times to get it right. Kind of interesting I installed a similar New Star seal on the other side and no issues with that one. So it goes...

What I found out was that on my 5ton the seal had to be .500 th. long.
I used a set of calipers. From the most out side egde ( where the seal hits the bearing race ) to the other end ( where the rubber is molded around the steel part ) needs to be .500 th. If it is longer it gets hot. If shorter oil will get into the bearings and wash out the grease. Took me a month and a lot of missed rides and fairs to get this figgerd out. Just my $.05 worth.

 

[wiggall]

Hope that you get it figured out! We will have to get together with our TRUCKS, and DO A PRADE!

 

[gringeltaube]

............................... Would turning down the seal on a lathe work as well? .................

If you mean removing some rubber you can try but I would not recommend it. You may sacrifice even more of this seal's poor resiliency...
It was much easier for me to slightly press the center (put between bearing cups) to get it offset to 0.9 - 1.0 mm. That is, reduce the interference from initial 1.7mm to now approx. 0.7mm.
The attached drawing was done to exact proportions and +/-0.1mm precise. It shows the before and after mods. in detail and I think it is easy to understand why this was necessary. For anyone interested to have this in bmp (2MB) just let me know. (....maybe the manufacturer himself or some retailer of these "el cheapo" seals ...?)
Also added some pics even if they don't really contribute that much in this case.

Before somebody jumps on my head now: I'm not saying that those seals won't work at all, the way they come from factory. But I do know that my "mods." perfectly do their job, without that much initial pressure against the bearing race (cup), making everything run at normal temps and surely lasting longer, too!


G.

 

[cleb]

Thanks so much for the info. I'll have to figure out how to press them, and get back to you on how they work out. Did you use a deuce rear bearing/race to do it? How did you prevent the inner part that the nuts snug up against from being at an angle after being pressed? Seems like it would be easy to bow it. Hopefully I can get her fixed up soon, too busy with school and fixing broken cars to work on the truck at the moment.

 

[zak]

Also make sure your axle vent is clear and your fluid is at the 1st knuckle level.

 

[gringeltaube]

............................................. Did you use a deuce rear bearing/race to do it? How did you prevent the inner part that the nuts snug up against from being at an angle after being pressed? Seems like it would be easy to bow it. .................................................................................................

No, those weren’t Deuce wheel brgs……! And little sense would it make if I just gave you the cup #s since I guess you don’t have them laying around….? (Unless you are like me: never throw anything away, you never know…!)
Anyways… here they are so you can at least extract the measurements to fab. your own molds if you have access to a lathe….: for the bottom (seal inside face) I used a stock #3720 (93.3x23.81). Centered inside the same fits a HM89410 (76.2x23.0) with its height reduced to 22.7. For the top (seal outside) a stock #30209 (85.0x16.0) in combination with a modified 29521 (110x 19, height reduced to 14.6) works best.

Re-engineering and adapting (or call it messing with...) cheap aftermarket parts can be “fun” but in this case I would prefer the real OEM seals if I knew they were freshly made !!! If anyone knows a source then please let us know.

G.

 

[nk14zp]

Sorry, I thought this thread was about a hot tub at first. I guess I need my eyes checked....

Same here.

 

[Militoy]

Same here.

Now - that's just Wrong.

 

[zak]

Why wouldn't a spacer between the seal and bearing work just as well? I have the same trouble and it going to be my first spring job.

 

[gringeltaube]

A good quality steel shim there would also help...

....but in my case it was about 20 seals that needed to be fixed and it takes less than 1 minute ea. once you have the "tool" set up...

Also, the outer (lock) nut is the one that holds everything in place and I just didn't want to have it tighten too far out towards the end of the threaded spindle. The spindle nuts I got (most likely from the same origin...?) already fit way too loose, for my taste!

Conclusion: better buy original parts...!

G.

 

[m35a2cowner]

Brakes

Another thing you might want to check is the brake adjustment for the rest or the truck. The front adjustment might be fine but the rest of the brakes might need adjusting resulting in the front brakes applying first and doing the majority of stopping for the truck. I also had a shoe hang up on the front axle. A bit of brake lube on the backing plate contact points took care of the problem. So far as the oil leak, did you use the cork seal and clean out the breather? Remember the bearings are lubed by the grease and not gear lube. It took me a while to learn that lesson. Just a thought.

 

[JDToumanian]

The nuts I got (most likely from the same origin) already fit way to loose for my taste !

Conclusion: better buy original parts...!

I am so sick of made-in-China JUNK!!! I had problems with these seals and lock-tab washers, until I bought quality parts. Perfect assembly and no hot hubs.

 

[gringeltaube]

I am so sick of made-in-China JUNK!!! I had problems with these seals and lock-tab washers, until I bought quality parts. Perfect assembly and no hot hubs.

Well, they keep making "junk" because the whole world keeps buying it....!
...and normally you get what you paid for...!

So maybe you could tell us your secret: where did you find the good seals???
I'm sure that especially the author of this thread would appreciate that info...

G.

 

[JDToumanian]

I bought a small stash of them N.O.S. from a vendor at an MV show 2 years ago. They're 20 years old, but were still sealed in their foil-lined brown paper envelopes.

I'd like to suggest for the vendors in this hobby, including dealers like Memphis Equipment, to purchase stock from original military suppliers, like Rockwell-Meritor themselves, rather than from "New Star" or some other imported brand. I wish I had better short-term advice than that!

Jon

 

[yellobronc]

Dangit....every time I scroll past this one I see "HOT TUB"

 

[BMCUSNAVY]

Nuttin wrong wid dat..... thats red neck male bundinggg... lol lol lol

 

[wiggall]

Did you ever get your truck fixed

 

[BMCUSNAVY]

Have the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, flywheel. thowout bearing & pilot bearing. looking for the "block sizes" for the pressure plate fingures & the clutch alignment tool (1"1/2 from the clutch to 3/4 to the pilot bearing..... I'm really frustrated on how too post a new thread on this website....... can you give me any guidence?

 

[bones1]

If you are working on a Deuce you got real close. Go to the main section of Deuce and look at the top left header and you will see the words "new post".This is a thread under the heading under Duece that someone else posted.

 

[silverstate55]

.....for the bottom (seal inside face) I used a stock #3720 (93.3x23.81). Centered inside the same fits a HM89410 (76.2x23.0) with its height reduced to 22.7. For the top (seal outside) a stock #30209 (85.0x16.0) in combination with a modified 29521 (110x 19, height reduced to 14.6) works best.

G.

WOW, Gerhard, THANK YOU very much for this info! While rehabbing a replacement rear axle on my in-progress Deuce, the wheel seals were blown on this axle, and they are the newer "Newstar" design. Trying to find NOS outer seals is next to impossible, and here in the desert rubber doesn't last long anyway. So, I thought it best to follow your advice on using bearing cups to modify the Newstar seals.

I managed to find 3 of the 4 bearing cups at my local NAPA store, all NAPA house-branded but manufactured by SKF. Part numbers are HM89410; 30209-C (couldn't order it as cup alone, had to order it with the bearing included for some reason), and BR3720.

However, trying to find a 29521 was almost impossible...I found one listed on Summit Racing's site, and when I talked with those folks they said that it was an older, obsolete style cup that they special-order direct from Timken, and when completed will ship directly from Timken...earliest it would ship is 3 weeks from now, but I didn't want to wait so I had my NAPA guy find something with an inner diameter that would fit over the Newstar outer seal (overall inner diameter is exactly 3.5-inches).

We checked every bearing & cup catalog that was in the store, and I even searched through Timken's & Federal-Mogul's catalogs online, but we couldn't find any cross-reference for a 29521. Not even the NSN info with alternate part numbers helped.

What my NAPA guy did find was a NAPA house-branded SKF bearing cup with a part number of JLM710910. It has an overall height of just over 18mm, so it took some judicious grinding to lower it to 14.6mm. But it worked perfectly!! I tried the setup out on my Newstar outer seals, and this setup worked PERFECT. All my outer seals now look just like G's above.

I am very happy, thank you so much Gerhard!! This should help prevent the seemingly-perpetual leaky & hot hubs so many of us are encountering.