Military mobile cranes

[Wrench Wench]

I've been investigating mobiles cranes I might be able to get my hands on on the surplus market. They have to be able to hoist an object 40x8x9.5 feet weighting at least 8380 lbs. to a height of at least 19 feet from odd locations around the lift. Just to clear up any mystery, this is stacking 40' steel shipping containers to a height of 3 containers.

I found an M809-class crane, the M819, on GL, but it's a little on the small side for slinging 40 footers three high.

Then, on GL, I found the HSHMC-25, the Harnischfeger High-Speed, High-Mobility 35 ton crane. There are a number of them on GL right now, mostly in the form of stripped down hulks, but there are three that look ripe for restoration. They're big. Like massively big. Like I'd have to hire a M123 with a lowboy to freight it from GA to IN if I miraculously won one.

I think of it as the HEMTT's basketball star big brother with a massively longer reach.

Has anybody here ever contemplated adding an HSHMC-25 to their collections? What would be the issues of such a restoration project? It goes without saying that in order to drive this beast on a public thoroughfare would require a CDL. What would I have to study to be able to use the crane safely, even if just for my own purposes and no one else's?

 

[73m819]

a 819 wont work, it has 26' of boom length, will not stand straight up, so getting 3 stacked will not happen, getting 2 stacked will be hard because rigging adds to the height needed. you will need at least a 35t crane so you have the reach, the stacking 3 high, to be able to pick from a distance around site. that travel distance you might think about trucking what ever you get.
you would have to learn to operate a crane, learn what it can do, what it cant, how to rig safely, it is NOT something that happens over night, i would not be on the ground anyware close to the operation with a newbe in the seat

 

[Wrench Wench]

Yeah. I'd take a 40fter on a intermodal trailer behind the H-25 to a nice, large, open field and just play for a few hours with nothing and no one around.

Any idea how much these things would go for on GL?

 

[73m819]

you would need a tractor to pull the intermodal trailer, pulling with the crane would put you so over weight, depending on the crane, the boom may be over the rear on a dolly to spread the weight, so you could not tow something.
a few hours in the seat would not get me any closer then if you never had been in the seat, that isnt enough time to learn , like what to do if the unexpected happens, what the feel is, ect, ect. this is how people get KILLED

 

[jd-ford-hd]

Hey Wrench Wench, its hard to answer all your questions in this format. There are a lot more questions you will need answered that you have not asked yet!! I was wondering if you are a one person operation or many people. The 40' containers have the lifting points for crane lift at the extreme corners. 30' slings are a minimum length required to maintain a safe angle of the slings. Stacking 3 high is definately do-able but will require tag line and personnel to square each box on top of each other and keep the box from swinging into the crane boom. Someone has to climb to the top of each box to unhook the slings and shackles. All container yards where you see stacking, have a container handler(read: huge a$$ forklift!). GL actually had two of these on sale recently, I think in Fla. If this venture of yours comes closer to reality, you can PM me for any help that I may be able to provide. Cranes are my business, literally!!

 

[73m819]

stallion off shore here in LA. they make living quarters that are the same as containers, use a big man lift to place the rigger on top, thay stack 3 high if needed in the yard, have a lot of sling on top so the working angle is safe and not overload the rigging. thay also use a big crane with a LOT of boom so thay can reach and set and not be right on top of the pick

 

[NDT]

If you want to get into a military crane cheap that will do what you want, look into the P&H M320T. It is a 20 ton lattice boom friction crane mounted on a 6x6 carrier. Nobody wants them because they are gas engines up and down. I bought mine for $3000. It is ok for occasional lifts. You can add boom extensions to go 100' high if you want. The crane weighs 60,000 lbs, is a bit expensive to have it hauled around. They were new in 1970's, and were used very little.

 

[Wrench Wench]

I really prefer to be a one-woman operation, and I'm very analytic about taking on new endeavors like hopping in the cab of a 25 ton crane and starting to grab levers.

a few hours in the seat would not get me any closer then if you never had been in the seat, that isnt enough time to learn , like what to do if the unexpected happens, what the feel is, ect, ect. this is how people get KILLED

I wasn't implying that a few hours in the seat would make me safe for other people to be around, the guy handlers, metalworkers, etc. I was implying that it would give me enough experience for my own purposes. I explicitly asked:

What would I have to study to be able to use the crane safely, even if just for my own purposes and no one else's?

If I would not by up to such a project solo, and would have to use helpers, then I know I would need third party instruction and certification before anyone SHOULD be ALLOWED around me in the seat. Or, hell. At that point, it'd be less of a headache for all concerned for me to hire the crane operator crew in total and just say, "See that container? *point* See that Foundation? *point* Put the first one on top of the second one like this. *points at single sheet of paper diagramming the first layer of the house* I'll be half way down the hill sipping a sweet iced tea. Gimme a shout on the radio if you need anything clarified."

Frankly, I would prefer it if I could get away with doing it all on my own. I think I have a very good idea how these things go wrong: putting the CG outside the bounds of the outriggers, instability in the load rigging, lifting in the wind (which on the hilltop where I'd like to build, will be an issue), swingng (or booming or hoisting) too damn fast, etc.

I think with a three remote winches anchored on trash trees outside the build area on the ends of the 40' container, I'll be able to keep it from swinging or turning on the end of the crane cable and put it in position, either on alignment spikes welded onto the anchor plates welded into the rebar in the concrete foundation or on alignment spikes welded into the corner hard points in the previous layer. A simple come-along with a stop in place could do the final tweaking of the container to within an inch of its desired location if the alignment spikes aren't sufficient.

Once the container is in its final location and the crane is no longer bearing its weight, I can hop out, clambor up, disconnect the rigging myself and then get the crane boomed in, parked in its cradle, and shut down. Then, I can hop out again, fire up the welder and anchor it permanently in place at no less than four points, and prolly more like 8 or even 12. Once one level is welded in place, then the next level can be placed on top of it and the cycle repeats. If I can manage this by myself, then all I need is the ability to get the containers up the hill to the build site from the material storage yard down the hill. It was that trip that I was thinking of when I described the crane hauling an intermodal trailer up and down the hill, but yeah, I don't really want to be retracting the outriggers and backing that crane town a 1/4 mile hill... betwen the house and the garage half way up, 20 times.

If I could do this and do it well, I might think about starting a business for design and construction of these kinds of structures for hire. Last month, there was a report that surplus TEUs reached 800k.

And yeah, I know about the corner castings and how they can be directly used with lifting hooks, but frankly, I'd rather use an interlock to present a vertical eye hook to attach a lifting hook to from a proper spreader. That would keep the stresses on those corner castings to a minimum. Even though I'm going to be slinging empty containers and these corner castings are wrenched on by gantry cranes at ports when the containers are full, but the gantry carrier is itself a spreader bar keeping the stresses on those corners perpendicular. I just would not apply an angled lifting force to them without the written council of a professional.

I'm not sure about that P&H M320T. There would be one container that would have to be stood up on end and centered on the side furthest from where I'd plan to park the crane. I'd be worried I have to down more trees than I'd like to get the crane to a place the back staircase could be stood up and put in place.

If you want to see the specific design of my shipping container house, I have it on the web here: Project Semicircle

 

[cundupa]

Wow!

 

[jd-ford-hd]

Wow!

I was thinking WAW.!.!.! (what a woman!!)

 

[reloader64]

Go, Girl!

 

[D8dave]

Hey, Wrench Wench got some thing for you check out this web site [ www.georgemooretruck.com] he has a small army crane for sale it mite just be what your looking for. I have a M819 and no way is it going to do the job you want like 73 M819 said .

 

[NDT]

Quick lesson on hydraulic machinery older than 20 yrs old, regardless of hours: One by one, every hose will crack and break, and every cylinder will need to be repacked. Big cylinders like on the 35 ton P&H hyd truck crane will run $500 ea to repack. Hoses are at the cheapest 80 bucks each, and the crane has 100's of them. A Grove TMS 865 crane (1987) I recovered from NASA Michoud required 2 ea $500 tires, 4 ea $140 batteries, and hose after hose. We drove it 300 miles and what a nightmare that was.

My point is, at $2000 a day for a 90 ton crane rental with operator and riggers, you may be better off to hire your job out rather than buy your own crane for this project.

BTW, every ocean container I have ever entered was about 130 degrees inside on a summer day. Do you have a plan to insulate and cool these?

 

[Wrench Wench]

Three layers of 2" Dow rigid blue styrofoam insulation incorporating the corrugations of the container walls and a coating inside and out with ceramic insulating paint between the layers of blue foam. The exterior is going to be a white stucco, so that unwanted solar heating will be either reflected away by the white color of the whole structure, or blocked by the stucco material, the first layer of styrofoam , the first coating of the ceramic thermal barrier, the second layer of styrofoam and steel corrugations, the second layer of ceramic thermal barrier, or the third layer of styrofoam, or, finally, the interior wall treatments.

And yeah, I'm kinda figuring hoses and tires and cylinders, oh my, not to mention whatever attention the V-8 diesel and trans would demand before being reliable, but when I'm done, I'd have something, the crane. I can sort of understand dma251 and his HEMTT and there's that collector gene that would love to get exercised by adding a HSHMC-25 to my collection. First, few people would have them, making my collection rarer. Second, few people want them, meaning I could get it for cheap (at least initially). I'm also visualizing that when I don't need the crane boom, I could pop it off and lay on a bed and truly make it a better HEMTT than the HEMTT (not to disparage the HEMTT, mind you). Some people sink a lot of money into a home theatre to rival the local cinemaplex. Maybe I get the same pleasure from replumbing a 25 ton crane's hydraulics. *shrug*

So, I guess there are two aspects here, one, the having of an 8x8x8 high-speed, high-mobility crane/party wagon, and, two, the using of same to build my house, and possibly building other houses for hire, or just genericly stacking stuff really high. When it comes down to it, there will be a proper cost-benefit analysis performed. Any info/advice I get in here will be part thereof.

I'm accutely aware of the heating and cooling problems of large metal boxes. I had to do my gardenning in a small rusty steel shed that would, in and of itself, reach atrocious levels of heat inside. I'm sure on the scale of a 40x40x40 steel house, it would suitably magnified. Part of the design of my house is passive solar, part active solar, part geothermal, part aerothermal, part electric heating, part refrigeration/air conditioning, part subfloor hydraulic heating... and when all else fails, open the back door and the front widow's walk and get some serious cross ventilation.

For power, I expect to be on the grid, but use solar electric for my well pump, and the passive solar tech should be able to handle all heating needs, but the electric back up will be there just in case. The south face of the roof is one big green house/solarium. The parts of that surface inaccessible for growing plants or sunbathing, or whatever can be occupied by solar electric panels or solar thermal panels. I'm also brain storming how I might be able to use a so-called solar death ray, a solar light concentrator, to be able to heat a cooktop so I could cook food (at least on a clear day) without relying on grid power. If the hilltop where I build my house is suitably windy for suitably long periods of time I'd love to loft a couple of wind turbines to reduce my reliance on the grid.

 

[rideni]

as some one who works with rigging and hoisting among other things at work. You might get a good start with a surplus crane but imagine a cylinder or line failure while lifting. You will need tag lines operated by trained ground personnel, A.) For safe maneuvering of a hard to balance load, B.) to maintain alignment.
Then comes to welding the Connex's together, I believe that step is unnecessary as you can maintain great seal by using twistlocks as long as the pockets are in good condition. Oh yeah and speaking from experience if you bury any. make sure to put it on top of 10 inches of riffrafft with 8 inches of fist rock and 2 inches of crushin run all compacted and coat the out side of the trailers in a rust sealant with a heavy duty epoxy outer coat

 

[m16ty]

I'm a certified crane operator so I have some knowledge in this area. I've stacked many containers with a 14 ton RT civilian crane. It's not a one man (woman) job. You will need a minumim of two people. Three would be better. You will not be able to see to line the pins up and the container will block your vision and the wind will blow that thing around like crazy. If you've never run a crane you definitely don't need a friction rig as some of the military cranes are. If you don't know the difference in a friction rig and a hyd. rig you need to find out. I'm glad your willing to learn but I think the whole thing is a bad idea. I've seen more cranes turned over than I have fingers to count, buckled booms, and dropped loads. Cranes aren't something you just get out in a field and "play" with.

Cranes are also very exspensive to maintain and transport.

 

[EZFEED]

OMG.....such creativity and ambition........and likes mechanics, hydraulics, diesels........

Are you married.....cause I'm not....LOL!

 

[scottc]

I'm in the construction industry, M16ty is correct. Crane operation and rigging should ALWAYS be handled by professionals. There are many different variables that must be accounted for when hoisting anything. I have even seen a crane tipped while being loaded on a truck. Risky business. I have also realized over the years that unless you have a everyday, income earning, use for a piece of heavy equipment, do not buy it, rent it or lease. Anvantages are: no repair, no transport, and no payments when the unit isn't working. That's just my

 

[NDT]

You guys have no sense of adventure. Many times I have operated my M320T will the tag line coming into the cab with me. I had never operated a crane before buying the M320T, and now I have even taught myself how to operate the dragline, a lost art if there ever was one. Accidents happen even when experienced people get in a hurry and don't check the load charts, or put the outriggers down on unstable surfaces.

 

[kroctec]

Hi WrenchWench,

First of all the use of 40 foot containers as living/playing/working spaces is very well established as you probably already know. However DO NOT try and design for containers to be stood on end. As to stairways and stairs you would be well advised to cut through the ceilings and floors of stacked containers for the stairway and you will find there is an ample supply of industrial stairs from redundant buildings that had steel mezzanine floors.

With regard to placement of containers, my honest and best advice is to hire in lifting professionals at whatever cost whether you are doing a structure for yourself or for others. this will save both yourself a lot of grief and potentially your clients money too.

For anyone who is unaware of the potential of used containers I strongly suggest you visit this website and see how a reaaly switched on guy has done stuff
Container City™ | Home

Also good luck with your plans and hope they work out.