8x8 Deuce

[JeremyB]

Hello all,
I have been thinking of makeing my deuce a 8x8. I want to use the tandem axle setup from another M35 back and two stearing axles up front, kind of like the Tatra or HEMTT.

What do you all think? I haven't seen a single post or pic of one yet.

 

[TexAndy]

In Texas at least, I think that would add enough weight to make it not legal to drive on a regular class C driver's license.


Still sounds cool, tho. Can't wait to see pics.

 

[JeremyB]

In FLA 26,000 and under WO air brakes is still clas E, which is the norm that a soccer mom has.

 

[donkdonk]

In Texas at least, I think that would add enough weight to make it not legal to drive on a regular class C driver's license.

As long as it is your own personal ride, and you have your own personal insurance, it doesn't matter.

 

[cyberspace_7]

Ohhh a limo...

 

[TexAndy]

As long as it is your own personal ride, and you have your own personal insurance, it doesn't matter.

Last I looked, anything 26,000 lbs or higher GVWR needed a Class B or higher. regardless of who owned it or what type of insurance it had.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think it's the same in most States because of the Driver's License Compact.

JeremyB:

How much weight would an additional axle make? A stock deuce is at 23k GVWR as is, I believe.

 

[rosco]

I always had trouble counting. How many more rear axles? If its just one, how would you suspend it? Two more might be easier with the whole suspension system.

Double steering is one thing that sounds easy, but tie rods and drag links might get complicated. Hydralic controls might be the way to go there. The second steering axle usually turns at a faster rate then the first one.

Then after all the axles are connected, the T-case will be the next weakest spot, trying to power all that stuff. The brakes would be the same type problem - having a master cylinder big enough for the volume. Turning it on dry pavement might scuff tires some.

I must say, the idea is stimulating, just trying to calculate the disposable time needed to work out all the bugs.

Lee in Alaska

 

[Ruppster]

In FLA 26,000 and under WO air brakes is still clas E, which is the norm that a soccer mom has.

About 2 years back I looked in to Florida's rules pertaining to what needed a CDL or not. Don't know if they have since changed it or not but at the time they seperated heavy duty trucks in to two classes, trucks that were made to carry cargo on them (i.e. cargo/flatbed trucks) and trucks made for the sole purpose of pulling trailers that carried the cargo (i.e. semi truck tractors). Cargo/flatbed trucks used for personal use did not require a CDL, even if the GVWR was 26,001 or more pounds. But if the tractor trailer truck had a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more then at least a class B CDL was required, even if it was used for personal/not for hire stuff. This was listed right on the FL DMV web site under CDL's. If it has not changed then weight ratings would not be an issue on a 8x8 truck as long as it had a cargo bed and not a fifth wheel. No CDL would be required.

As long as it is your own personal ride, and you have your own personal insurance, it doesn't matter.

Yes it does as each state is different. More on that below.

Last I looked, anything 26,000 lbs or higher GVWR needed a Class B or higher. regardless of who owned it or what type of insurance it had.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think it's the same in most States because of the Driver's License Compact.

JeremyB:

Yes and no. As per Federal guidelines a CDL is required only when the vehicle in question is used in commerce (i.e. for hire/profit). There are several exemptions to CDL requirements, one of them is if the vehicle is for personal use and the driver does not receive any "compensation" for his/her time. The sad part is they include trophies and prizes as "compensation". So if you drive a truck to an antique vehicle show and it's GVWR is 26,001 or more and you receive an award/trophy they now consider you to be a "comercial driver" and must get a CDL. The trick is this is just a set of guidelines written by the Feds and all it does is the set minimum requirements that each state must follow. It does not prevent any state from making the rules tougher.

Alaska and Virginia are perfect examples. I loved it we we were stationed at Langley AFB in Virginia as Virginia followed the Federal guidelines to a tee. I could drive what ever I wanted with a regular driver's license as long as I did not receive anything in payment. But when we came back to Alaska I had to get a CDL to drive anything with a GVWR over 26,000 pounds, even if I was not for hire. This is due to Alaska leaving out the personal use exemptions when they incorporated the Federal guidelines in to the state statute that covers license requirements.

Anyhow, the point is each state is different. What's legal in one state will get you in trouble in another.

Ruppster
www.dodge-semis.com

 

[GoHot229]

I always had trouble counting. How many more rear axles? If its just one, how would you suspend it? Two more might be easier with the whole suspension system.

Double steering is one thing that sounds easy, but tie rods and drag links might get complicated. Hydralic controls might be the way to go there. The second steering axle usually turns at a faster rate then the first one.

Then after all the axles are connected, the T-case will be the next weakest spot, trying to power all that stuff. The brakes would be the same type problem - having a master cylinder big enough for the volume. Turning it on dry pavement might scuff tires some.

I must say, the idea is stimulating, just trying to calculate the disposable time needed to work out all the bugs.

Lee in Alaska

BINGO..........rosco, nailed this one.............. Your ability to properly arange the tie rods and suport aparatuse's may end up being a Herculean task of engeneering PERIOD...!!!!!!! oh my Gosh, it sounds semi difficult. Sure all these ideas "COULD" kinda-sorta be done, but the end product, unless you could throw money at it like "BLACKWATER" throws money, may be way unwise or out of your "I figured it would cost this......" scenario. Then where does your states DOT stand on this, were talking steering here Bu Bu. Not to get me wrong, I'm for inovation too, along with the other spectators here on the forum, (with un-conventional tastes) but sometimes it's a matter of (just because you can, should you ? ) However we aplaud your inovativeness and idea, and this comment isn't meant to put a wet sock in your lunch bag, it is to Drag you by the sholdiers and shake you to the 'waking' state, and say come-on it's time, lets go "WHEELING". Theres always time for dreaming tomorrow. A quick edit: Just think about how many tires that is.....900's being about a Buck each......what are we looking at, say........20 tire/wheels.........? no matter which tires you used, say 1400's for the HMETT 'LOOK' thats still 12 of them very costly tire/wheel combo's SO........Yea your idea is intreagueing, and we give you creadit for the inovation, and yea, probably 'Someone' here has tried or knows someone who has tried something simmilar. I think you will get a bunch of helpfull ideas from members more knowledgable than I, so don't let my answer be a downer, instead just something to consider ......................................................................................Rich

 

[Stalwart]

I have 7 vehicles with multiple steering axles and the arrangement goes from somewhat complicated to mind numbingly complicated. The arrangement in the Alvis Stalwart is the one that I would emulate with a simple beam on a fulcrum arrangement. Determining the ratio is the only difficulty.

 

[wreckerman893]

We have had this dicussion a few times.......I love the idea but (and there is always a but) it requires thought and adult supervision (both of which I am without most of the time) and prob a degree in "redneck engineering".

To make it an 8X8 you would only need to add an additional steering axle.

I think the consenses last time was that the 800 series 5 ton platform was more suited since it already has power steering.

One issue often overlooked is LIABILITY.......if your homemade HEMMET steering fails and you head on a mini-van full of cub scouts you are going to have a real bad day in court.

There will be (not might be) a legion of lawyers waiting to sue you. You will not have enough coverage on your policy to protect you from the bottom feeders especially if you have property or wealth. This is why corporations have lawyers....if their design is faulty they can fight it out in court with the trial lawyers.

If you are only going to drive your homebrew 8X8 off road then I would say go for it.
It's your money and time.

Just my .

 

[derby]

I may have missed it, but I thought a Deuce was 13,000 +or-

 

[DUG]

It would be neat to do... After you finish that, why not put a deuce rear axle under an M105 trailer and connect a drive shaft with several sets of U-joints to the back axle on the deuce?

TWO steering axles under a stretched M105. Insulate the sides and use it as a beer cooler.

 

[NorthWoodsDuce]

In RE: to the weight... mine is #13,650 lbs. With me and 1/2 tank fuel, just ran it over scale yesterday.

 

[Mark2X2]

JeremyB,
My Deuce takes 40 acres to turn around stock, can't imagine an extra steering axle! But if you have your heart set on it, go for it!
Mark

 

[Coldfusion21]

HEMTT turning radius could actually be alot worse. Its suprising at times.

if you have access to some cad software and have a good head on your shoulders you can totally figure it out. Anything less and you would be throwing darts. Copying a OEM solution would be ideal, but first you gotta find one you like (and can replicate) then you either need access to the parts or measurements of all the parts to replicate them.

And i agree, 5 ton would probably be the way to go.

Be one of the first, actually do it!

 

[dodgemain]

I know your thinking about an 8x8 Deuce. But, I just thought I would post is picture of a 5-Ton truck. I saved this picture off this website a while back.

 

[nofearnohope]

The actual weight of your vehicle is not the same as the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). Your Duece only weighs about 13,000lbs empty, but has the ability to carry or tow an additional 10,000 lbs. Therefore it is rated at 23,000lbs. This is your GVWR, the empty weight plus how much additional weight it can carry.

 

[Snarky]

Adding another axle wont change your gross vehicle weight, they'll usually only accept what the data plate says, which is less than 26k. You could probably get it recertified by going to a weigh station, getting a slip, and adding 5000 or 10000 pounds depending on whether you wanted it classified by the on highway or off highway weight. Still I think you would come out below 26000#. Adding another axle wont technically change your carrying capacity, as there are a lot of factors involved. Tires, suspension, frame, brakes, engine size all come into play when determining how much a vehicle can safely carry. So it's either going to be stuck at 5000 or 10000.

 

[JeremyB]

I know your thinking about an 8x8 Deuce. But, I just thought I would post is picture of a 5-Ton truck. I saved this picture off this website a while back.

That is fugley....