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High nickel content

blzrgb

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mississippi
I've got a buddy that says that the Government had General Motors add Nickel when casting the engine blocks for the Military 6.2's inorder to increase the hardness of the block thus increasing durability. Does anyone know if this is true or not. He also said the heads and FI pump was the same way. If this "IS" true, then to get civy replacement's would be a downgrade would'nt it ???
Anyone know if this is true or not ???
 

Chief_919

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Western NC
No truth to it at all. The 6.2's came off the line just the same, no seperate production for military stuff.

Now Stanadyne does now make the military IP's from harder materials to compensate for lower lubricity fuel- but only the HMMWV pumps post 98 or so.

Now that AM geneal makes the 6.5's and has Navistar cast the blocks they are far better than anything GM ever turned out.
 

Jersey4x4

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Absecon, NJ
Yes to both questions sort of...
The Military block is an 010 and 020 block meaning it is a 10% higher in nickle and 10% higher in zink but it was for corrosion protection since the Gov knows the vehicles sit allot. Not the Gov did not make them do it, they already do it as a Marine Application and if you use a interchange manual for the 6.2/6.5 engines you will see that all the CUCV and HMMWV motors are actually serialed for marine use. It did not increase the hardness of the block pre say but as and after fact it did help them cool better and disperse the heat throughout the block more evenly. You never see hot spots on a military engine but on the Civilian units you can see sometimes a 20deg difference from side to side and front to back.

Now the IP is the same housing and some of the parts but any shafts and moving parts that would normaly use fuel as a lubricant are High Carbon Steel not nickle and zink. Due to the use of JP8 and JP10 fuels with virtually no lubrication in it that is what needed to be done to run the other fuels. If you get an IP rebuilt the new parts will not be High Carbon steel but you can request them for a little bit more money.
 

Ken_86gt

Member
428
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Location
Williamsburg VA
I see people mention from time to time about using JP-8 or JP-10 fuels in CUCV's. I don't remember this when I was active nor do I see any reference in the TMs about this. Do you have any references on this?
 

Westech

CPL
6,104
208
63
Location
cow farts, Wisconsin
we use diesel here on post.. now I have seen the Fuel caps on the M998's and M11... (hummers) state "diesel, Jp8" i would think that it wont hurt a 6.5 it wont hurt a 6.2... just add a quart of motor oil or trans fluid to lube her up.
 

Chief_919

Well-known member
2,050
103
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Location
Western NC
Yes to both questions sort of...
The Military block is an 010 and 020 block meaning it is a 10% higher in nickle and 10% higher in zink but it was for corrosion protection since the Gov knows the vehicles sit allot. Not the Gov did not make them do it, they already do it as a Marine Application and if you use a interchange manual for the 6.2/6.5 engines you will see that all the CUCV and HMMWV motors are actually serialed for marine use. It did not increase the hardness of the block pre say but as and after fact it did help them cool better and disperse the heat throughout the block more evenly. You never see hot spots on a military engine but on the Civilian units you can see sometimes a 20deg difference from side to side and front to back.

Now the IP is the same housing and some of the parts but any shafts and moving parts that would normaly use fuel as a lubricant are High Carbon Steel not nickle and zink. Due to the use of JP8 and JP10 fuels with virtually no lubrication in it that is what needed to be done to run the other fuels. If you get an IP rebuilt the new parts will not be High Carbon steel but you can request them for a little bit more money.

According to Stanadyne they never put the low lubricity componet iin the IP's intended for CUCV's from the factory. I have also never found any evidence that government contracted rebuilders did so, aside from some states where the NG went out and contracted with the local rebuilders outside the normal procurement channels and had it done.

Remember, the widespread use of JP8 did not hit until the mid 90's, and it took several years after that for the government to start reacting to lubricity and viscosity issues, a fight still going on to this day. By that time the CUCV was considered low priority for such upgrades.

Now HMMWV pumps after the late 90's do indeed have the low lubricty componets. But the spec for CUCV pumps was never changed from all info I have.

Interesting on the blocks- a GM represenative told me that both HMMWV and CUCV blocks came right off the same lines with no changes at all. What casting numbers are you refering to when you say they interchange for marine use? I have ordered new engines through the system before and recieved the EXACT same block that you would get from a GM dealer at the time (mid 90's) because we went down and compared casting #'s and everything in a study to see if we could get replacement parts cheaper locally than ordering them through the system. A brand new engine through the military supply system and a brand new long block from GM parts were 100% identical in all casting #'s, and a call to GM confirmed this.
 

Chief_919

Well-known member
2,050
103
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Location
Western NC
we use diesel here on post.. now I have seen the Fuel caps on the M998's and M11... (hummers) state "diesel, Jp8" i would think that it wont hurt a 6.5 it wont hurt a 6.2... just add a quart of motor oil or trans fluid to lube her up.


Don't add motor oil or transmission fluid. Both are not designed to burn and can leave deposits on the combustion chamber and injectors, and the friction modifiers in ATF can actually be worse for the IP in some cases. All sorts of trace metals and materials are added to both that do not burn and get left behind.

If a proper lubricity enhancer is not available, the best way to go is two cycle engine oil. It is designed to burn without leaving harmful ash and is intended to dilute in fuel to increase the lubricity.

A diesel can use JP8 no problem generally. You lose about 10% of your power. The issue comes with lubricity when the engine has components that are designed to be fuel lubricated like the 6.2/6.5 IP. That said, stick to one or the other if you can. If you run diesel for a long time, you will build up algea and sludge in the fuel tank. JP8 acts like a detergent and when you switch over it will kill that algea and all that crud will move to your fuel filters. That is an ongoing problem for those of us in the USAR and National Guard where we can only buy diesel locally, so we run it all year, but when we go to annual training suddenly we are running JP8 at the fuel point.

The other issue with JP8 is one of viscosity in hot weather- it can break down to the point where if the engine is shut down it will not restart until cooled. It is worse in cases where the engine idles a lot. It took TACOM a long time to even admit there is a problem, as they seem to be unable to duplicate it in the lab, but they are coming around. Having been there in the field I can say 100% it is a real problem. If you have AKO access do a search for "hot no restart" for lots of info on the issue of IP's, JP8 and heat.
 

blzrgb

New member
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Location
mississippi
This ultra low sulfer fuel that we burn now, is it bad for the IP of the CUCV ? If I'm right the sulfer is for lubrication.
 

Stihl029

New member
112
0
0
Location
Kodiak, AK
That's all that we have on island is the low sulfur so mine has been doing ok. The IP and Injectors are less than two years old and the tank was throughly cleaned as well prior to the new IP. So I have not have any issues to report. These were done since the rig needed a new IP when my friend bought it, then I from him.
 

Chief_919

Well-known member
2,050
103
63
Location
Western NC
This ultra low sulfer fuel that we burn now, is it bad for the IP of the CUCV ? If I'm right the sulfer is for lubrication.
I wouldn't say "bad" so much as "not as good" as the old stuff. But not as bad as JP8.

Whenever I fill up with ULSD in my 6.2's or 6.5's they get a mix of power service lubricity enhancer and 2cycle oil added.

That said, lately I have been buying b20 biodiesel blend, and one great advantage to bio is it is much better at lubricating.
 

blzrgb

New member
200
1
0
Location
mississippi
At my business, I have a fuel tank with off-road diesel (red dye) in it for my loaders. Would i be better off to use that fuel instead. The fuel company says it's "not" ultra-low sulfer.
 

Ken_86gt

Member
428
2
18
Location
Williamsburg VA
You should not be using Off-Road diesel in your street driven vehicle. The Ultra low sulfur is not the end of your injector pump. If you are concerned then use an additive in your fuel.
 
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