Hercules tractor Pistons?

[Alex400]

I have been looking at the threads about upping the fuel, high egt's and the quest for more power out of the deuce. In several threads, i read about the oliver pulling tractors with the ld 465 making all kinds of horsepower with stock bottom end and slightly modified stock pistons. I believe that entirely. From reading this, I figure that yes the deuce has the same basic motor as the tractor, but the major difference is the compression. The multifuel compression of 22:1 is not conducive to low egt's of any kind, especially when you add boost. THinking about most modern diesel's that are making of 300 hp reliably have around 17:1 compression, it would make sense that to make the deuce make more power you would need lower compression. The biggest thing allows the deuce to burn anything is the high compression and combustion chamber design.

So i guess what i am asking is, would it be more lucrative to get the pistons out of the white tractor motor that produce 17:1 compression and add a larger turbo to the deuce in hopes getting more reliable power? the fuel obviously would turned up too. I figure with the lower compression, a larger turbo, and the fuel turned up, that the engine could easily handle 25-35 pounds of boost regularly and get it over 200 hp and 450 ft lbs of torque. that being said, with the increase power you would not have to run the engine at 100% all of the time like you might of had too before. The tractor pull guys are running the engine at 100% the time. for the truck you would not being doing that when you are running down the road and if you are it is only for short bursts to get up to speed.

i am throwing this out there because i would like to here your guy's opinions on the subject.

 

[jwaller]

the duramax engines have 24:1 compression. but to just compare those numbers doesnt even begin to show all the different aspects.

 

[Alex400]

the duramax engines have 24:1 compression. but to just compare those numbers doesnt even begin to show all the different aspects.

where did you get that spec? all of the specs that i have seen show between 16.8:1 and 17.5:1

6.6 L Duramax Diesel Specifications

I know that is not everything, but i believe that a major limiting factor in the increasing the power in these engines is the high compression.

 

[SCSG-G4]

When I did the Google search on the 2-155 tractors, they did state the tractor engines were all 17:1 ratio, diesel only and limited to 2200 RPM's. A lot more power, both HP and torque, but also a gear case with many more gears to run through. Everything is a compromise of some sort or another.

 

[m16ty]

You will have to change more than the pistions. Atleast the injectors and maybe the whole head. The injectors squrit into a "hole" in the pistons on a mulitfuel and won't work with any other piston design. If I were going this route I'd try and find a complete tractor engine and swap it out.

 

[Alex400]

You will have to change more than the pistions. Atleast the injectors and maybe the whole head. The injectors squrit into a "hole" in the pistons on a mulitfuel and won't work with any other piston design. If I were going this route I'd try and find a complete tractor engine and swap it out.

when i read the posts by the guy that had an 2-155 tractor, he used a ldt465 (military) long block and head with the 17:1 pistons, although i think he said that they were modified to a little bit more compression. but he was for sure using the stock ldt 465 head on that motor with fire rings and a copper head gasket because he was using higher boost (something like 60+ psi.) I could understand the use of different injectors to try and fan out the fuel a bit, like it might be in the tractor.

 

[Alex400]

When I did the Google search on the 2-155 tractors, they did state the tractor engines were all 17:1 ratio, diesel only and limited to 2200 RPM's. A lot more power, both HP and torque, but also a gear case with many more gears to run through. Everything is a compromise of some sort or another.

that is true about the rpm, but i have a feeling that would have to do with the camshaft and the injector pump too. using only the pistons from the tractor for the lower compression, you would be able to maintain your rpm range from the truck and a similar power band but the ability to increase the boost a bit higher because of the lowered compression and combustion temperatures. The addition of an intercooler would help too.

 

[m16ty]

If all you were wanting to do is lower compression I wonder if you could add a spacer between the block and head? Don't know how thick it would need to be but if it's too thick you would have to have longer pushrods if you don't have enough adjustment on the rockers. Wonder if the multifuel combustion process will work with lower compression?

 

[Alex400]

If all you were wanting to do is lower compression I wonder if you could add a spacer between the block and head? Don't know how thick it would need to be but if it's too thick you would have to have longer pushrods if you don't have enough adjustment on the rockers. Wonder if the multifuel combustion process will work with lower compression?

In terms of the combustion efficiency, don't know if that would work with the injector as it wouldn't hit quite right on the piston, it at all because it would be aimed higher in the bore.

I don't know if i would want to go there as it would need new push rods that were custom length, and two head-gaskets! The piston swap would be easier IMO if an in frame rebuild was possible.

 

[jwaller]

where did you get that spec? all of the specs that i have seen show between 16.8:1 and 17.5:1

dunno. I remember hearing/seeing it many years back. guess it's not so. they still run 26,000 psi of Fuel pressure. that is totally insane.

 

[Alex400]

dunno. I remember hearing/seeing it many years back. guess it's not so. they still run 26,000 psi of Fuel pressure. that is totally insane.

that is incredible, isn't it? I can't remember how high the cummins but it is pretty high as well.

 

[WillWagner]

26k aint nuthin'! The 2010 HPI engines Cummins is fielding produce 35k + rail pressure and up to 5 injection events per firing event. The turbo is now 1/2 the size of the 2007 emission year model engines...good thing, those things are heavy!

 

[Alex400]

26k aint nuthin'! The 2010 HPI engines Cummins is fielding produce 35k + rail pressure and up to 5 injection events per firing event. The turbo is now 1/2 the size of the 2007 emission year model engines...good thing, those things are heavy!

you know i heard something about that. i think the new ford is up around 29,000 psi rail pressure. it is just amazing what they are capable of these days.

 

[jasonjc]

And you wounder why a 60+ year old engine does not make as much power

 

[Alex400]

And you wounder why a 60+ year old engine does not make as much power

That is true. To be honest with you, with any modification I may make to my truck in future, i am fully aware that it is not going to make the power that a modern diesel could. I just think there is potential to make more power while still maintaining reliability and keeping those egt's down.

And you know i really don't mind going slow. haha I drive a toyota 4runner with 3.0 v-6. it does alright but it doesn't go like my buddies cars or trucks. Once it gets to speed it can hold it pretty well, i still down shift on the pass to hold speed. the thing is geared so that 70 is as fast as i would ever want to go for any extended period of time. most of the time i drive in the right lane at about 60-65 and just let it sit at a good rpm. I would rather go slow on any terrain, than fast on pavement.

 

[m16ty]

Are the tractor pistons even available? If so give it a try and post results.

I'm thinking just a piston swap won't work but I could be wrong. Does anybody have a pic or dimensions of a tractor piston?

 

[Alex400]

Are the tractor pistons even available? If so give it a try and post results.

I'm thinking just a piston swap won't work but I could be wrong. Does anybody have a pic or dimensions of a tractor piston?

I was able to find a complete rebuild kit with all of the bearings and everything, but i was also able to find the piston/liner kit that comes with the piston, rings, and liner. the price i believe is for each slug.

https://www.allpartsstore.com/ItemD...150&SearchItem=1&TextSearch=&ItemNumber=SK484

The guy that put the LDT 465 block in his pulling tractor put modded tractor pistons in it that increase the size of the hole in the piston for lower compression and probably for better combustion. He also said that the only difference between the tractor engine and the military engine was the intake and exhaust manifolds. He used a custom cam and injection pump, but the basic engine was the same.

Pulling tractor with a deuce engine

I do not own a deuce but I have an Oliver pulling tractor that uses a D4800 Hercules engine that is real similar to an ldt-465 except it has the manifolds reversed so that the turbo is on top and the intake manifold is on the bottom. My engine is a 478 cu. in. but I have been told that there is...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[doghead]

The tractor uses a completely different IP system, including injectors.(RoosaMaster)

It does have different intake, exhaust and turbo.

I suspect that even though they look similar, there is actually very little about the two, that is the same.

 

[Alex400]

The tractor uses a completely different IP system, including injectors.(RoosaMaster)

It does have different intake, exhaust and turbo.

I suspect that even though they look similar, there is actually very little about the two, that is the same.

according to the guy with the tractor that used the military engine in his tractor, the long block (block, heads, crank, rods, pistons) were the same except for the pistons. he was using the stock ldt 465 parts except for the pistons and the injectors. Regardless, the main reason i am interested is for the pistons and the reduced compression. the tractor pistons seemed to have the same piston design as the deuce motor, but producing less compression which leads me to believe that both the tractor and the military versions of the engine have a similar combustion cycle.

I need to do more research and look into it in more detail before i would suggest any to go try it. I with i had a shop and motor to work with just to tear apart and look at to see if it was possible.

 

[Alex400]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPBF6JR7leE[/media]

hahah this sounds like a really hopped up deuce.