towing a deuce

[dittle]

load distibution is key to this post not gcvrw he blew a tire and ended up in a ditch this only happened for one reason load distibution he didnt have a hard time stoping if you blow a tire it causes a sway . it can be controlled if proper weight distribution is used .if not enough tongue weight there will not be enough traction in the rear of the tow vehicle and will make the rear tires slide side to side causing a change in direction.if you have to much tongue weight it will be picking up on the front tires making the front tires loose traction and you will loose the ability to steer and stop properly all these problems can happen well under the rated gcvrw .this is what happened here .my guess is that with a four axle trailer being bumper pulled there was not enough tongue weight for the load being towed and when the tire blew the back of the tow vehicle pushed to the side pointing him straight into the ditch adding more weight to the back of the tow vehicle could have prevented this from happeningi would say yes rant but peoples lives are at stake and proper loading of the trailer is vital and not exceeding the tow capacity is just as important as not exceeding the gcvrw and they are three very different things weigh distibution is probably the most important factor to stability and safe driving if you take a truck that weighs 5000lbs and has a gcvrw of 15000 lbs put a 10000lbs trailer behind it shift the load to the back where it has no tongue weight and try to turn a corner or stop youll know why this is important real quick.or load your 10000lbs trailer so it has 5000lbs tongue weight and do the same we wont be talking about how its not important to this post and you'll have a clear understanding of why he ended up in the ditch

TM, you beat me to my next post on this. I'm was looking at this post not from being over the GVWR but from another view.
I got thinking about why he would lose control with a 4 axle trailer when he only blew one tire. He had to have had too little weight on the rear axle of the pull truck.
My dad is an over-the-road semi-truck driver and he has to deal with the DOT regulations on how much weight he can/has to have on each axle when loaded. My dad is "limited" to 40 tons loaded (unless he gets a permit) but he can put a lot more on the trailer to go way over the 40 ton limit on a 2 axle trailer. Doesn't matter what his total weight is he still has to have a certain ratio of weight on the drives axles versus the trailer axles so that he can maintain control. Same thing applies here....too much on the trailer axles and not enough on the drive axles.

 

[hndrsonj]

I have a couple questions. First what exactly was the pulling truck? It was a F350 but what year and was it the dually? Second, was the trailer a gooseneck? Also, did it have singles or dual wheels? We don't know alot of information and it makes a huge difference in the outcome of this. Most references to trucks and weights are all 80's dated trucks. Anyone saying that the new trucks just have updated suspension and brakes with the same frame obviously has not owned one of the newer trucks. Depending on the trailer you could legally tow a deuce with a pickup. For example, the GCWR of an 09 dodge dually is 24,000lbs. That truck has a max towing capacity of 16450 lbs. Depending on the trailer/deuce weight it could be legally done but it is very close.

 

[PorscheTech911]

It's because of this stuff and all the advice and wisdom that I'll be getting my Deuce shipped to me or once I get my CDL and M915A1, I'll be trailering it home on a flatbed. Glad he didn't get hurt, I hope he gets his deuce back soon!

 

[rlwm211]

The original post says 4 axle "TAG" trailer. I interpret that to mean a "bumper hitch" type of trailer. I would imagine that it would have a pintle hitch, but that is speculation on my part.

The original post did not say whether it was a dually or not for the tow vehicle. That would make a HUGE difference in terms of safety.

No Doubt it is very close if not over the limit of what the truck could "legally haul".

I am in full understanding of the driver's problem with an extremely high tow bill.

I also am a bit perplexed as to why the hauler was on the "big road" which I interpret to be an interstate type of highway.

As was pointed out by several in this post, hauling a 13000# payload is a heavy load for a one ton, in the best of situations and I am in full agreement on that point.

I chose to have my truck hauled home by someone who had the right truck and trailer, and the experience to get it to me in one piece, professionally, and without incident. I made this choice after considering all of my options and any others I could come up with to get my truck home the 125 miles it was from my house.

Considering what the truck is worth to me now, it was a small investment to make.

Just my two cents

RL

 

[mudguppy]

The heaviest dual wheeled F350 has a tow capacity of 12,500 lbs. The deuce weighs 14,000 lbs, and a trailer that can handle a deuce has to weigh at least 6,000 lbs. That's 20,000 lbs of trailer for the math challenged

Assuming your friend had the biggest F350 made, he exceeded the GCVWR of his truck by 7500 lbs! ...

Chuck, close but the actual numbers could be quite different than yours. the towing capacities have been on the rise for quite some time.

2005 ratings for F350 DRW:
GCVWR - 23500
conventional tow rating - 15000 (all models)
fith-wheel tow rating - 16600 to 15800 (depending on model)

now, i'm not trying to bust your balz - because you're right. even with a later model truck, he's still going to over loaded by a good bit, best case scenario. worst case could be your 7500lb overload. i just wanted to correct that 7500lb over was best case.

now, i find it very ironic that folks are blasting the OP's friend for being overloaded (not saying he shouldn't be blasted), but many were singing the praises of allah for Alredneck in this thread because he was "getting it done for SS members." as if it matters who he is and who's cargo it is.

i just thought that some of the responses and comments from some members were funny as it applies to this scenario...

 

[stumps]

load distibution is key to this post not gcvrw he blew a tire and ended up in a ditch this only happened for one reason load distibution he didnt have a hard time stoping if you blow a tire it causes a sway . it can be controlled if proper weight distribution is used .if not enough tongue weight there will not be enough traction in the rear of the tow vehicle and will make the rear tires slide side to side causing a change in direction.if you have to much tongue weight it will be picking up on the front tires making the front tires loose traction and you will loose the ability to steer and stop properly all these problems can happen well under the rated gcvrw .this is what happened here .my guess is that with a four axle trailer being bumper pulled there was not enough tongue weight for the load being towed and when the tire blew the back of the tow vehicle pushed to the side pointing him straight into the ditch adding more weight to the back of the tow vehicle could have prevented this from happeningi would say yes rant but peoples lives are at stake and proper loading of the trailer is vital and not exceeding the tow capacity is just as important as not exceeding the gcvrw and they are three very different things weigh distibution is probably the most important factor to stability and safe driving if you take a truck that weighs 5000lbs and has a gcvrw of 15000 lbs put a 10000lbs trailer behind it shift the load to the back where it has no tongue weight and try to turn a corner or stop youll know why this is important real quick.or load your 10000lbs trailer so it has 5000lbs tongue weight and do the same we wont be talking about how its not important to this post and you'll have a clear understanding of why he ended up in the ditch

I have no disagreement with any of this post. I maintain that this is not an unusual outcome for such a heavy load on a 1T truck. If that trailer was pulled by a bumper hitch, it is going to be unstable at that weight regardless of the weight distribution. It needs to be a much heavier truck for that kind of tow.... F700 comes to mind.
-Chuck

 

[stumps]

Chuck, close but the actual numbers could be quite different than yours. the towing capacities have been on the rise for quite some time.

2005 ratings for F350 DRW:
GCVWR - 23500
conventional tow rating - 15000 (all models)
fith-wheel tow rating - 16600 to 15800 (depending on model)

now, i'm not trying to bust your balz - because you're right. even with a later model truck, he's still going to over loaded by a good bit, best case scenario. worst case could be your 7500lb overload. i just wanted to correct that 7500lb over was best case.

now, i find it very ironic that folks are blasting the OP's friend for being overloaded (not saying he shouldn't be blasted), but many were singing the praises of allah for Alredneck in this thread because he was "getting it done for SS members." as if it matters who he is and who's cargo it is.

i just thought that some of the responses and comments from some members were funny as it applies to this scenario...

It's difficult keeping track of the numbers for vehicles you don't own The internet helps, but it is so chaotic, the numbers are all over the place, and you can't verify their accuracy.

When I was looking for options to recover my deuce, I went through all of this with a trucker friend. I got some quotes from guys that were hauling deuces "professionally" with 1T PU trucks. I asked my friend if it would be reasonable to try something like that with his Dodge RAM 1T dually PU truck, and he got quite hot about it! And told me a few stories of some of the heavy hauls he did that didn't go quite right... including one that blew out 3 tires on his trailer that was supposed to be good for the task. He said no way! An F700 or F800 dump truck with a properly sized lowboy trailer was the smallest vehicle he would consider for towing a deuce... A Peterbilt would significantly reduce the pucker factor.

The Feds are looking at these sorts of hauls. Heavy PU trucks are being used a lot to avoid the DOT insurance, inspection, and licensing requirements. Their trailers are uninspected, uninsured, and frequently not up to the loads these guys are hauling. And there are a lot of bad outcomes showing up on the US highways.

-Chuck

 

[mudguppy]

i'll put it to you this way: i own a dually and can get access to a GN capable of handling 15k.

i got Eric (Heavy) to haul my deuce for me.

 

[Westex]

I've had my deuce hauled here and there by a friend with a 1 ton Ford 350 Dually with no problem, but I have to admit, we know it's back there when we do this. BUT, he has it outfitted with a jake brake and we are very careful; won't pull it in the rain, etc... He hauls a D5 cat bulldozer on a dual tandem trailer with brakes, keeps it in shape. Same trailer we haul the deuce on. What it's worth.

 

[mudguppy]

... BUT, he has it outfitted with a jake brake ...

soooooo, what's that going to do for you?




...and it's not a 'jake brake'.

 

[DUG]

now, i find it very ironic that folks are blasting the OP's friend for being overloaded (not saying he shouldn't be blasted), but many were singing the praises of allah for Alredneck in this thread because he was "getting it done for SS members." as if it matters who he is and who's cargo it is.

i just thought that some of the responses and comments from some members were funny as it applies to this scenario...

Took the words right out of my mouth....................................

 

[Westex]

soooooo, what's that going to do for you?




...and it's not a 'jake brake'.

Saves your brakes......the ones on your wheels; causes resistance compression on a diesel engine.. and in my arena, it's a 'jake braaaake'; blata blata blata

 

[Westex]

It's not about getting it goin'; it's about stopping that counts.

 

[doghead]

Guys, please stop arguing in the forums. Let's be constructive.

 

[roscoe]

Chuck, close but the actual numbers could be quite different than yours. the towing capacities have been on the rise for quite some time.

2005 ratings for F350 DRW:
GCVWR - 23500
conventional tow rating - 15000 (all models)
fith-wheel tow rating - 16600 to 15800 (depending on model)

now, i'm not trying to bust your balz - because you're right. even with a later model truck, he's still going to over loaded by a good bit, best case scenario. worst case could be your 7500lb overload. i just wanted to correct that 7500lb over was best case.

now, i find it very ironic that folks are blasting the OP's friend for being overloaded (not saying he shouldn't be blasted), but many were singing the praises of allah for Alredneck in this thread because he was "getting it done for SS members." as if it matters who he is and who's cargo it is.

i just thought that some of the responses and comments from some members were funny as it applies to this scenario...

And the ending of that thread sort of sums up the need to use the appropriate equipment for the job. It appears he ended up distroying his truck for very low amount of compensation.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Doghead, Agreed, arguing in the forum is not productive.

Roscoe, Approprate equipment is the key. Squirt lost a trailer tire with 33,000 in tow last year, and yea I was over the "rated 30,000" limit, but fortunately, we made it in OK.

We are all glad the he did not get hurt.

Exceeding GVWR and GCVWR will continue (we call that furure business in our forenics department.

 

[papabear]

I agree Roscoe...use the appropriate equipment for the job. If you don't have the equipment..hire the job out or just leave it alone.

First: In response to the question of the wrecker bill on page one I will just say that we run the largest wrecker service and heavy transport within about 100 miles in any direction. I would challenge that bill through the insurance company and through the court system if need be. I can not even begin to dream what kind of trumped up charges were thrown in there to get the bill over 7K Kinda reminds me of that program "Wrecked" on TV...makes me sick...they bring all kinds of heavy trucks and toys to do what one of my troops can do with one truck (or I would fire the rascal)!!

Second...this thread has started me thinking about the max my F350 dually is capable of so I pulled out the owners manual.
It states the max towed trailer weight(with cargo) as 15K with bumper hitch and 16.5K with 5th wheel.
So...as stated above...a deuce could be legal but would be close depending on actual trailer weight. My truck has the 4:10 rear axle so it will pull it (maybe that explains the 12-13MPG)?

Anyway...having said all that...there is no way on God's green earth I would pull a trailered deuce except in an extreme emergency and for a very short distance.

Why you ask? Because I don't like to max out my equipment. I pay hard for what we have and plan to get years of service from it. I will just use the next larger truck better suited for the mission or hire it done if we can't handle it (as if that could happen...LOL)

Finally...my motto is that just because you CAN do something...doesn't always mean you should. When you get close to maxing out your equipment the safety and pucker factor goes to high on the scale for me.

The End

 

[dittle]

Well said PB