more questions & ideas related to fording kits

[jesusgatos]

I've read through all of the old threads and understand that the fording kits were not meant to be permanently installed, but I would like to build a fording kit that I can leave hooked-up all the time. When it's time to get wet, I don't want to have to do anything more than install the bellhousing plug and put on my scuba-gear. So I was thinking about dumping the slobber-tube into the exhaust, kind of like the crankcase evacuation kits that Moroso sells. Then I found these crankcase filters made by Racor/Parker. That would solve the slobber-tube problem, right?

 

[BFR]

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?3257-deuce-crankcase-breather-filter-details.html

I would say you are heading in the right direction.

 

[jesusgatos]

Hah. Thanks for the link. I didn't recall reading about the Racor CCV and I even posted in that thread...

 

[ken]

Jesse. The original kit runs the slobber tube up next to the snorkle. There is a hole drilled into the side panel close to the air intake for this tube. I could see a vacume produced by the exaust gas flowing at higher RPM's to pull the cranckcase fumes out. But at idle wouldn't the exaust push back into the crankcase?

 

[jesusgatos]

Hi Ken. I've seen those hoses that you're talking about, but I've also read that you're not supposed to leave that hose attached all the time - because it wouldn't vent / drain properly and you wouldn't want that gunk in your intake anyway, right?

As far as positive / negative pressure: Moroso includes a one-way check-valve in the kits that they sell. I hadn't got as far as thinking about what to use for this application, but was figuring that I'd have to figure that out. It was only when I started looking into check-valves (which ones might work best in this application) that I found those Racor products. Cranetruck had the right idea all along. I like it because it's a permanent install and it's always working.

The thing about plumbing the slobber tube into the exhaust that I'm unsure about is what kind of check-valve wouldn't get so gunked-up that might stop working. Not sure which way I'll end up going. Maybe this will spark a conversation that helps me sort it out? Anybody know anything about check-valves?

 

[cranetruck]

Jesse, read about the m656/xm757 trucks, they were designed to swim/ford with a minimum of preparations. They also feature the multifuel engine.
A valve on top of the rocker covers (visible in image #1) makes it possible to pressurize the engine and the blowby gases are normally going out the exhaust (plumbing shown in image #2). No check valve here, the exhaust flow creates enough under pressure to keep fumes going in the right direction.
The bellhousing is always plugged (automatic transmission), so the only thing needed before fording is to wait for the pressure to build up. Even the generator was pressurized to provide power to bilge pumps when swimming....

 

[GoHot229]

While this Fording kit would look good and seperate you from the crowd, I wonder how often it would actually get any use, actually for its intended pourpose playing fish? How many of you actually have been up to the windshield in the water?... boy, one thing, if it wasn't installed correctly and you did get out up to your bed or windshield or deeper yet, it would make for a lot of winch cable or line of some sort to pull you back up on dry ground, just mabe....?

 

[cranetruck]

My deuce is basically "fording ready" to 4-5 ft, has been for years. Even if you only drive in water deep enough to cover the axles, you are in for a lot of maintenance. Only way to know if wheel bearings didn't take water is to take everything apart....
I have no plans to drive in deep water again, did it a couple of times for that MVM article and that's enough for a long while. Then again, these trucks are like Erector sets and it's just fun to explore the options.
Another feature of the m656/xm757 series, the brakedrums have inspection ports, so if no water entered, there is o need to take the hubs apart.

 

[jesusgatos]

Jesse, read about the m656/xm757 trucks, they were designed to swim/ford with a minimum of preparations. They also feature the multifuel engine.
A valve on top of the rocker covers (visible in image #1) makes it possible to pressurize the engine and the blowby gases are normally going out the exhaust (plumbing shown in image #2). No check valve here, the exhaust flow creates enough under pressure to keep fumes going in the right direction.
The bellhousing is always plugged (automatic transmission), so the only thing needed before fording is to wait for the pressure to build up. Even the generator was pressurized to provide power to bilge pumps when swimming....

Thanks for posting about those m656/xm757 trucks cranetruck! I didn't know that it would ever be desirable to build pressure in the crankcase, but I guess that makes sense. Can you please tell me a little bit more about how that valve on top of the valve cover works? I imagine it's selectable? Does it function like a blow-off-valve, so that the engine can't build too much pressure in the crankcase? I'd be interested to know how much pressure it might allow the engine to hold. Any chance one of those valves could be adapted to an LDT/LDS engine?

It's good to know that the slobber-tube can just be plumbed right into the exhaust, but I ended up getting a Racor CCV4500 unit. Now I'm trying to figure out how/where I want to mount it.

I'd still like to know more about these valves though, just out of curiosity.

While this Fording kit would look good and seperate you from the crowd, I wonder how often it would actually get any use, actually for its intended pourpose playing fish? How many of you actually have been up to the windshield in the water?... boy, one thing, if it wasn't installed correctly and you did get out up to your bed or windshield or deeper yet, it would make for a lot of winch cable or line of some sort to pull you back up on dry ground, just mabe....?

I'm building a crazy-ass motorhome that I'm planning on living/traveling in fulltime, and many of the things I'm incorporating into this vehicle are way past anything that I can justify with terms like necessary (or sensible). Overkill is pretty much the theme of this project and I've got backups for backups. It's not to much that I'm planning on driving through any deep water, but like cranetruck said, it only takes water up to the hubs before you're into a whole lot of maintenance. I'm going to be traveling to a lot of remote places, and I know that I'll encounter water-crossings occasionally. Extended breathers would probably be adequate for most of those situations, but then...

Another feature of the m656/xm757 series, the brakedrums have inspection ports, so if no water entered, there is o need to take the hubs apart.

I'm not sure I'm following you. How are they different than the brakedrum inspection covers/holes on the deuce?

 

[jesusgatos]

So, I'm trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to plumb the air pressure / vent lines and I wanted to get some input before I get into this because I'm sure you guys can help me do a better job with this than I'd be able to manage on my own.

I'm thinking that I'll run individual 1/4" air-pressure / vent lines to some type of manifold, where I'll have the main system tied into the manifold (using a mini-regulator), and a main on (pressure) / off (vent) valve, and then a larger (what size?) vent line that will be capped with some type of free-flowing filter. I asked here, but what would be the best type of hose to use for this application? Keith_J suggested Polyethylene.

I'm probably also going to install valves at the manifold that will allow me to cut-off air to any of the individual air-pressure / vent lines. Someone posted pics of a homebrew fording setup like that somewhere on this forum, and that seemed like a pretty good idea to me. You know, just so that in case there's a failure somewhere, you can isolate that section of the pressurizing system.

The other thing about that (manifold and individual valves) is that I'd like to be able to use the same mini-regulator and manifold to pressurize the remote reservoir for the brake system. Yeah, so I can pressure-bleed my brakes using Mah Deuce's air supply.

Another thing I've been mulling over is the idea of installing some type of Tee (or Y) junction where each of the air-pressure / vent lines terminates at the place where it's connected to whatever's being vented. The thing I'm thinking about is that it seems like it might be a good idea to have an easy way to blow-out the lines. Seems to me that with such long vent lines, especially the ones that will run long horizontal stretches, that it's pretty likely the lines will accumulate some gunk and might be prone to clogging. But if I installed valves that I could open/close right where they end (at whatever's being vented), then I could open-up the mini-regulator to let more pressure blow through the lines and clean out anything that might have been accumulating in there. Good idea? Bad idea? Got any better ideas? Open to input here. Help me think this through.

And just to make sure I'm not over-looking anything, what all needs to get vented / pressurized? My list is looking like this:

transmission (tied into vent / pressure system)
bellhousing (tied into vent / pressure system)
transfercase (tied into vent / pressure system)
differentials (tied into vent / pressure system)
brake system - master cylinder (tied into vent / pressure system via. remote master cylinder)
fuel tank (should be vented separately, right?)
slobber tube (re-routed to Racor CCV and then to intake)
air compressor intake (re-routed to intake)

What else? Am I forgetting anything? Does anyone pressurize the knuckles on the front axle? I noticed that there are some small plugs on the front/back of the knuckles that would be easy to tap into with an air supply. Don't know if the axle boots could handle that, but I jsut installed a set of the one-piece silicone boots. Would be kinda funny to see those things blow-up like balloons...

 

[jesusgatos]

Oh, I forgot the engine intake. I'm going to have a mandrel-bent snorkle made (90-degree bend backwards & angled 45-degrees up, to a 45-degree bend upwards to vertical, to a section of straight pipe that will be capped with a Sy-Klone Series 9000 pre-filter. Not quite sure how tall I'm going to make the snorkle yet, but I want to get the pre-filter up above the windshield so the intake doesn't block any more of my field of vision than it needs to.

 

[Srjeeper]

jesusgatos,

For the intake snorkel you can use 4" exhaust pipe & 4" ID/OD elbows at whatever degree you need from NAPA.

As for the slober tube why not just put in a tee fitting with a ball vavle on the one leg. If your goin under to install the plug anyway, ya just flip the lever on the ball valve and your off.

Both these wouldn't cost much to fab up and replacement would be a piece of cake no matter where ya ended up.

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks for the suggestion on the exhaust pipe there Srjeeper. I did check with Napa and it was going to run me close to $100 for the two bends that I need. Shopping online, I can get those same two pieces of mandrel-bent tubing for less than $50 (including shipping). After I cut & weld one of these together, I might see whether there'd be any interest in a bolt-on, one-piece, mandrel-bent snorkle.

As far as the slobber-tube goes, I've seen on here where a few guys have done exactly what you're suggesting. Looks like a pretty good solution, but I've just felt like goofing around with this to see what else can be done to make it even easier to prepare for fording. I'm going to see about trying to adapt some type of cable-operated on/off valve to the bottom of the bellhousing too.

 

[jesusgatos]

Does anyone pressurize the knuckles on the front axle? I noticed that there are some small plugs on the front/back of the knuckles that would be easy to tap into with an air supply. Don't know if the axle boots could handle that, but I jsut installed a set of the one-piece silicone boots. Would be kinda funny to see those things blow-up like balloons...

Well, I satisfied my curiosity this afternoon. I replaced one of the 1/4" NPT allen-plugs with a schrader valve, and then used a bike pump to see if the knuckle could hold any pressure. But the silicone boot blew up like a balloon right away, and I hadn't even use enough air pressure to register on the gauge I was using. If I put any more pressure into the knuckle, it was just going to push the boot out into the steering stop.

 

[jesusgatos]

I'm getting ready to order a regulator and a manifold, and I'm wondering whether something like this regulator (highlighted in yellow) is a good choice for this application. It's adjustable from 0-25psi and is non-relieving, which sounds important, since it'll be tied into the main air supply (don't want to bleed off air).

Then I was looking at this 8-port manifold. I'm thinking that I'd like to mount the manifold and regulator outside the cab (probably somewhere on the firewall), then just run the air supply and on/off valve in the cab (maybe another air-shift TC switch mounted somewhere on/in/below the dash?). That would allow me to run separate lines to everything, while only needing to put one new airline through the firewall (main air supply to the manifold).

 

[jesusgatos]

Air-pack vent? Can I tie this into the common vent/pressure lines?

Air compressor governor vent? Can I tie this into the common pressure lines?

Fuel tank vent? Looks like this need to be vented separately.

 

[gimpyrobb]

All 3 of those should be vented to atmosphere. If there is any pressure on them they will stop working correctly. That should be read as "brakes not releasing" or "over pressuring the air system". Did I say that so it is understandable?

 

[jesusgatos]

Yup. Gotcha.

 

[gringeltaube]

Let's be realistic here.... what should we expect as a normal" maximum? 50 inches of water? That is having the transmission tunnel already under water, running on 43" tires. The internal pressure needed at axle height or inside the diffs to compensate for this is little over 1psi, not more! 0.5psi for tranny and engine as well as MC...!
I don't think that either fuel tank or air governor or air-pack operation & venting would be affected by such a low "backpressure" of 1 - max2psi, considering that it would be temporary only.

The main problem for me was finding a press. regulator for such a low range and to be sensitive enough to give consistent values, once adjusted. In this sense the original regulator which comes with the OEM fording kit resulted pretty much unreliable, besides other problems...!

G.

 

[mudguppy]

Jesse, if you haven't already found a source for exhaust tubing, this site seems to be one of the most complete and cheapest that i've found.