Mech. starter Solenoid Vs. Electically Actuated Starter

[neil2007]

Is there a way to replace the mechanically actuated starter solenoid with one that is electrically actuated? I could have sworn a year ago or so there was a thread about this, but for the life of me I can't find the thread. (Might be because I'm not using the right criteria in the Advanced Search or something.)

This would be on a Deuce with the OA331 Gold Comet Gas Motor. I'd like to do this simply for security... I plan on adding a keyed main power solenoid to kill everything, but I'd also like to do this so I can have main power but don't have to worry about kids climbing into it (at a MV show, Parade, School Visit or etc..) and stepping on the starter switch and going for an unexpected ride! 8 'O

Any ideas?

Thanks!


Neil

 

[Jake0147]

I can not help with your original question, but for cost and originality this came to mind. A couple of members have made locks for their throttle stop rods, and i would suspect that either could be fabricated for your starter pedal to make a lockout device that is very simple yet difficult to defeat. I don't know if it's the right solution for you, just for your consideration.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/29130-keys.html#post306818
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/45167-some-updates.html#post505419

 

[Capt.Marion]

Could you replace the mech. starter solenoid with an electrical one off of an A2, and add an A2 starter button?

 

[neil2007]

Could you replace the mech. starter solenoid with an electrical one off of an A2, and add an A2 starter button?

I'm hoping that someone can confirm this for us... I'm not familiar enough with the A2's to know if they came with the OA331 or if the starters interchange between th A2 engine and a OA331.

Anyone know or have one of both that they can compare?

Thanks!


Neil

 

[Barrman]

The Gasser OA331 solenoid is on the starter itself. The newer electric push button solenoid is mounted to the engine away from the starter.

I will have to look, but I think the Gasser pedal actaully mechanically pushes the starter gear forward with the solenoid really only turning on the power.

I was concerned about people crawling around my truck as well. However, my 11 year old has trouble starting the truck when he really tries. Most every person that has gotten in the drivers seat has had trouble finding the pedal and even more trouble pushing it.

I just leave my coil power plug hand tight. So, when I want to secure the truck. I just open the side cover, reach in and unscrew the power lead. This prevents the points gettting burned out, coil heated up and burned up and the engine from starting all at the same time. A lot easier too than what you are thinking.

 

[neil2007]

The Gasser OA331 solenoid is on the starter itself. The newer electric push button solenoid is mounted to the engine away from the starter.

I will have to look, but I think the Gasser pedal actaully mechanically pushes the starter gear forward with the solenoid really only turning on the power.

I believe you are correct with this line of thinking... but would the two starters interchange if the mechanical linkage was moved out of the way?

I was concerned about people crawling around my truck as well. However, my 11 year old has trouble starting the truck when he really tries. Most every person that has gotten in the drivers seat has had trouble finding the pedal and even more trouble pushing it.

I hear that!!!! Took me a while to be able to actually push it correctly enough to get it to engage the starter... Actually, it took me a while to even figure out that it WAS the starter button!!! I wasn't expecting a mechanical linkage to engage the starter gear... (I wasn't very familiar with these trucks back then...)

I just leave my coil power plug hand tight. So, when I want to secure the truck. I just open the side cover, reach in and unscrew the power lead. This prevents the points gettting burned out, coil heated up and burned up and the engine from starting all at the same time. A lot easier too than what you are thinking.

The only problem with that is that I'm more concerned about someone actually bumping the starter (standing on it) with it in gear while people are walking around it looking at it vs. actually starting it and driving off with it...

By using a combination of all of the suggestions everyone has put forward in this thread, it appears it will be easier than I first thought to secure it and thus making it safe for everyone to enjoy without having to be constantly worried about it taking a trip on it's own. :') Although I'd still like to have the convenience of being able to just turn a key or push a button vs. using the old style mechanical means. (Although I guess this is part of the charm of this truck...)

Thanks!!


Neil

 

[kc5mzd]

If I were going to do this kind of swap on a truck I owned I would just take the starter off and take it into Fleet Pride or another large truck parts store and see if they can match it up. Just guessing but I think that if you start by getting a starter that works with the type of bell housing sae 1 2 or 3. Then look to see if the gear looks like it will come out the same distance. Then look at the gear and do your best to see if they are the same size and have the same number of teeth it would be worth a try. Last time I went in to get some new oil filters they were selling new mini high torque aftermarket starters for just about everything including big trucks.

If you do swap out for a starter with an electric solenoid remember that they use a solenoid mounted to the block to turn on the starter solenoid. This gives the starter solenoid extra power to kick out the gear so it can mesh with the flywheel before the starter spins.

 

[Barrman]

Do what you feel comfortable with, but leaving the truck in neutral at all times, using the parking brake and chalking the tires like the TM says to do would probably be the best all around. Especially, if you add a multifuel later. They don't get left in gear because if they start rolling, they could start and drive off by themselves.

 

[neil2007]

Especially, if you add a multifuel later. They don't get left in gear because if they start rolling, they could start and drive off by themselves.

Now that would definitely be counter productive!!!

So with that in mind, do these trucks come with any specific type of wheel chock that I need to start looking for to complete my compliment of period specific tools/goodies?


Neil

 

[Barrman]

The military had big wooded triangle chocks chained together. I have also seen aluminum ones and a few solid rubber ones in use.

 

[Barrman]

I looked at my Gasser starter this afternoon. The foot pedal pushed against what is basically just a big switch. The starter gear is engaged by the spinning of the starter. Think just a big version of what every Ford V8 had for about 40 years. I think it would be possible to rig up a new M35 solenoid to make it a push button start.

 

[Stan Leschert]

A locking master switch would be way cheaper and easier. Unless the old starter is hooped... Then take the old starter to a rebuild shop or an HD Truck toy store, explain your problem, and use their knowledge! Good luck and thanks for thinking of safety.

 

[JasonS]

You have to time the movement of the linkage with the application of power to the starter. If you don't do this right, you'll grind the ring gear. Best option is to go to a truck shop and have a proper starter made. The starter bolt pattern is standard SAE; shouldn't be too tough.

 

[neil2007]

I looked at my Gasser starter this afternoon. The foot pedal pushed against what is basically just a big switch. The starter gear is engaged by the spinning of the starter. Think just a big version of what every Ford V8 had for about 40 years. I think it would be possible to rig up a new M35 solenoid to make it a push button start.

This sounds very promising!!! If this is the case, then throwing a 24 Vlt solenoid in line with a key switch would seem like a very easy thing to do... Looks like I know what I'm gonna try after the snow and extreme cold go away! : ')

Thanks for taking the time to go out and look things over!


Neil

 

[neil2007]

You have to time the movement of the linkage with the application of power to the starter. If you don't do this right, you'll grind the ring gear. Best option is to go to a truck shop and have a proper starter made. The starter bolt pattern is standard SAE; shouldn't be too tough.

It seems to me that the next question at hand is how is the drive gear propelled to make contact with the driven (flywheel) gear. If it is actuated by the mechanical levers BEFORE power is applied, then there may be a problem doing this kind of modification without grinding of the flywheel or drive gear. BUT, if it is propelled to make contact by the spinning of the starter (like most vehicle starters now days), then I think this modification could very well work.

I guess we'll have to wait until someone can actually tear down a starter and see... I'll try this when it warms up a little because I really need to replace some of the main power wires anyway, so this would be a good time to takle this too.

Thanks for the idea!


Neil

 

[JasonS]

I think that you'll be money and time ahead to just get the right starter built for you.