M35 Fire truck WOT 2000 rpm 44 mph ... what's up?

[scootertrs]

OK... hate to sound ignorant... but can't help it... I insist in opening my mouth ... my engine is an LD465IC ... I cannot see the LDS anywhere... and I do not have a turbo... yet... I followed the vent line (after ruining the 90 degree fiting... xmtxtySSSXXX!-now I have to hunt one up) and saw that the thin vent line goes to a T that goes to the transfer case and to a thick line that goes up front... I just rebuilt the transfer case and just replaced it, but the thick line that goes forward goes up in the engine compartment and then it looks like it is supposed to be attached to the vent coming from the valve cover... take a look at the ingenious repair job done previously... No wonder I develop a vacuum ... here is a link to a youtube video of the truck going down the highway... max speed we are up to is 50mph and 2200 rpm... that was with the fuel cap loosely on the tank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuMrSwGFSUU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lOoe-7xghQ
as you can see... I am not putting out too much smoke... going to check governor and ip next... is there another mesh or filter screen on the ip or governor or return line filter?... I seem to recall one, but cannot find anything about it...

thanks

 

[JasonS]

The LDT was designed for less HP/torque, and lower RPM's than the LDS engine. The LDS is a heavily modified version of the LDT engine. It is designed to run another couple of hundred RPM, and another 30-40 HP. To do that, they redesigned the pistons, changed the crankshaft counterweights, added additional oil cooling, increased the oil pump capacity, bigger turbo, and a few other things that I don't recall right now.

Think of the LDS as being a high performance racing version of the LDT.

-Chuck

Where do you get all of these improvements? TM 9-2815-210-34-2-1 agrees in that there is additional (though minimal) piston cooling. However, there is nothing mentioned regarding crankshaft couterweights and it clearly states that the the oil pump volume is the same (unless you are talking about the LDS-465-2).

 

[stumps]

Hi Jason,

I got them from cranetruck when I asked him the same question:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/43459-ldt-465-1c-vs-lds-465-multifuels-3.html#post484708

-Chuck

 

[Recovry4x4]

The LDT was designed for less HP/torque, and lower RPM's than the LDS engine. The LDS is a heavily modified version of the LDT engine. It is designed to run another couple of hundred RPM, and another 30-40 HP. To do that, they redesigned the pistons, changed the crankshaft counterweights, added additional oil cooling, increased the oil pump capacity, bigger turbo, and a few other things that I don't recall right now.

Think of the LDS as being a high performance racing version of the LDT.

-Chuck

Except the LDS was produced before the LDT.

 

[JasonS]

Hi Jason,

I got them from cranetruck when I asked him the same question:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/43459-ldt-465-1c-vs-lds-465-multifuels-3.html#post484708

-Chuck

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the LDS465-2, not the more common LDS-465-1.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the LDS465-2, not the more common LDS-465-1.

Yeah, you're probably right! Bjorn has done lots of research on the -2. Sorry Chuck, jumped the gun!

 

[stumps]

Except the LDS was produced before the LDT.

Isn't it really a matter of the design path having been forked into two directions after the LD-465 was built.?

The LD-465 and the LDT-465-1C/D are virtually identical, save for the goodies necessary to make a turbo charger work. The LDS-465-1/ 2, however, is beefed up in a number of ways over the LD.

I know they are all modifications of the earlier LDS-427, but beyond that I know nothing about the time-line.

-Chuck

 

[scootertrs]

I am still perplexed.. can I use the manual for the LDT-465-1C/D reliably as the manual for the LD465-1C

Also... I keep hearing of how the turbo's are there to reduce smoke and emissions mostly yet when I run my truck, even pedal to the metal, I don't get much smoke... having dealt with heavy equipment... typically when a diesel engine is asked to do too much work for its power, it smokes trying to do the job... I don't get any of that... my little fire truck looks like it would pass a current day emission test in california...

 

[velociT]

I don't get any of that... my little fire truck looks like it would pass a current day emission test in california...

You could probably turn the fuel up then...

 

[JasonS]

Based on Continental's literature, the LD and LDS were designed at the same time for the 2.5 ton and 5 ton, respectively. Based on what I have read here on SS and other websites, the LD received a turbo as part of an effort to clean up the exhaust and became the LDT. In my opinion, calling it a "fork in the road" overstates the design differences. They really aren't that different.

 

[scootertrs]

You could probably turn the fuel up then...

How would I go about doing that? Are there any draw backs?

Thanks

 

[stumps]

Based on Continental's literature, the LD and LDS were designed at the same time for the 2.5 ton and 5 ton, respectively. Based on what I have read here on SS and other websites, the LD received a turbo as part of an effort to clean up the exhaust and became the LDT. In my opinion, calling it a "fork in the road" overstates the design differences. They really aren't that different.

You say tomato, I say tomahto. When you get right down to it, all 1960's era 6 cylinder 4 stroke diesels aren't all that different.... except where they are.

-Chuck

 

[Recovry4x4]

Raul, I would say you could certainly turn up the fuel on her. There have been tons of posts on this so I'd do a little searching. The manuals will apply to your LD.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/1118-turn-up-fuel.html

 

[scootertrs]

Thank you... will try it this am... one more thing,,, is there one more filter or screen either on or at the fuel injection pump or governor that I may have missed? I would hate to go through the settings and then find that my fuel flow was restricted...

 

[stumps]

The answer to your questions are very nicely laid out in the Continental LDS-465 trouble shooting manual referenced on the first page of this thread. It is written in a nice conversational style that is easy to read. Lots of illustrations, and virtually everything applies to your LD-465 engine. Get it, and you will be at one with the problem

Seriously, the first step in your diagnostics is to work on the wide open throttle issues. Once they are solved, solutions to the loaded engine issues are possible.

The manual warns you, in no uncertain terms, against working on the loaded engine issues before handling the WOT issues.

-Chuck

 

[scootertrs]

The answer to your questions are very nicely laid out in the Continental LDS-465 trouble shooting manual referenced on the first page of this thread. It is written in a nice conversational style that is easy to read. Lots of illustrations, and virtually everything applies to your LD-465 engine. Get it, and you will be at one with the problem

Seriously, the first step in your diagnostics is to work on the wide open throttle issues. Once they are solved, solutions to the loaded engine issues are possible.

The manual warns you, in no uncertain terms, against working on the loaded engine issues before handling the WOT issues.

-Chuck

Thanks Chuck... I did read the TM but I did see differences between my engine and the one in the TM... I have not found a TM specifically for the LD465... thus my series of seemingly endless questions... I have to tread carefully because an apple may not be an apple or vice versa for an orange... until I know that it is all the same and applicable...

I think that before I attempt to kick my fuel up, I need to be sure that all is working as it should be (in other words, all that gunk that had built up within the ip is gone, proper max rpm, etc.) and then, and only then ... kick up the fuel if necessary.

I am still perplexed as to why the prior operators deemed it necessary to disconnect the vent pipe going to the engine/transfer case/fuel tank and crimp it in the engine compartment. I will post a separate post to address this... I have reconnected all, but am definitely concerned as to the reason for the disconnect and crimp.

Thank you for all the help

Raul

 

[stumps]

The TM for the LD465 is: TM9-2815-210-34-1

It is available in the Resources section.

The Continental LDS manual is primarily about the fuel system, the IP and how they can mess up the performance of the engine. The only thing missing from your LD465 over the LDS465 fundamentally is the turbo. The curves and maximum RPM of the IP are different, but the methods they use to diagnose the problems are the same. The pressures they mention should be the same, but you can find out all of that in: TM9-2910-226-34 Also available in the Resources section.

-Chuck

 

[snakehunter1964]

I am still perplexed.. can I use the manual for the LDT-465-1C/D reliably as the manual for the LD465-1C

Also... I keep hearing of how the turbo's are there to reduce smoke and emissions mostly yet when I run my truck, even pedal to the metal, I don't get much smoke... having dealt with heavy equipment... typically when a diesel engine is asked to do too much work for its power, it smokes trying to do the job... I don't get any of that... my little fire truck looks like it would pass a current day emission test in california...

Hey Scootertrs, did you ever find the culprit? I have the same exact issue. Originally, it only happened sporadically however now it's always in this "low power" state.

I've done all of the things I can find except tearing the pump down to look at the governor and centrifugal advance.

 

[scootertrs]

Hey Snakehunter...

OK... an update... Issues I have so far resolved and all have added up to creeping up to approx 51 mph.

1. Bad fuel (looked like I had white molasses in the tank. Reolaced all filters and cleaned out the system.

Gain of about 3 mph...

2. Vacuum created in the fuel tank... apparently the vent to the tank was pinched off (prior owner probably left the cap loose.

Gain of about 2-3 mph

3. Brakes dragging... finally they locked on me during a photo/film shoot... pedal would not budge... neither would the truck... took the drums off and inspected the cylinders and they were leaking, totally seized and full of crud... these trucks have to be the best ever to even run under the condition mine was in... funny thing is the linigs and hardware was new... not fresh, not recent... NEW!!! so someone actually re-did the brakes on this truck and did not bother to check the wheel cylinders!!!... master cylinder was also leaking and the airpack was shot... all replaced as well as the front knuckle boot... This last issue should kick up a few more mph, but am not finished yet since I also did a hub flip and put in a remote brake fluid reservoir.

Also did the fire water valves and refurbed the pumps (wont make it faster but will let it pump like a proper fire truck)

I will report soon with an accompanying video with the requisite siren and lights going... as well as pump working.

Good luck

 

[doghead]

Have you confirmed that you have 6-7 psi at the secondary fuel filters and 60 psi after the booster pump? Do you run(hard) this truck for a good hour before testing the speed? What is your engine coolant temperature when you are evaluating the top speed?


I am guessing the previous owner pinched off the vent line because they heard air escaping (bad air pac). That would also explain your dragging brakes and slow speeds.