Skid Marks from Towing

[M1075]

Have you ever had the front wheels of towed vehicle lockup sideways while moving at highway speed? I have experienced the dreaded wheel lock many times while towing deuces around corners, but never on the interstate! We are still not sure what happened or why, but Tackettr put up a post regarding his "skid marks" in another thread and I thought it was a safety issue worthy of discussion. Here is his story:


"Not 5 minutes after M1075 broke off and 1 mile from my exit off I-35, all **** broke loose. At first I thought a big gust of wind had hit me because the 915 was trying to change lanes on me then a quick check in the mirror revealed the problem. The wheels had turned to the right on the deuce in tow trying take the rear of the 915 with it. Smoke was boiling from the tires and I just knew they were going to blow any second!

I was at +60 MPH when it happened and started an emergency controlled stop as quickly as I could. The brakes on the 915 are very good and I was concerned about them locking on me and then losing control. The rear of the 915 felt very loose during the braking.

Thank goodness, I was successful in getting it shut down and to the shoulder safely and no blown tires. I left a set of skid marks over 500 ft on the road and a pretty good one in my undies!"


Original Post here:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/49851-attn-ft-sill-deuce-winners-3-25-10-a-2.html#post584948

Pic of Offending vehicles below:

 

[rosco]

I have towed many vehicles. Cornering problems are not uncommon, but I would just a soon by-pass your experience. To help out on cornering, I tie off the wheel with a couple of bungee cords in each direction, left & right. It allows some turning motion, but wants to zero it, back to neutral - straight ahead.

 

[RANDYDIRT]

How far from medicine park are you in that picture? My mom lives there.

Dirt

 

[Alredneck]

Have like you said in slow speed turns with deuces mostly but a 5ton as well. Toe issue.

You can practice drifting in a deuce pulling a M816 wrecker with no air lines attached. I do not suggest anyone try this. Ask me how I know.

If yall turned off I40 to get on I35 there is a lot of jacked up road on I40 east of OKC.

 

[LanceRobson]

I realize that many of us have flat towed trucks at high speeds and for considerable distance but FWIW I think the TM for the truck and the towbar TM both state in bold letters to never tow a vehicle without and operator in it to steer. Maybe the DOD knows best?

Lance

 

[mikew]

There is so little caster angle on a Deuce that getting it to go straight while holding on to the wheel is sometimes a challenge, much less while towing it! And if the toe is out too, you're hosed!

I think you've got to tie off the steering wheel while flat towing. If you ever watch a tow truck driver, they often wrap the seatbelt through the steering wheel to keep it from turning (on old cars without a steering column lock).

I like the bungee cord idea, it gives a little movement but pulls the wheel back to center.

 

[papercu]

A bump in the road could cause it AND a right front blown tire will also cause a fast lane shift! In most (all?) states it is illegal for someone to be in a towed vehicle. Let a professional do it!! Wayne

 

[papercu]

If you ever watch a tow truck driver, they often wrap the seatbelt through the steering wheel to keep it from turning (on old cars without a steering column lock).

Never seen a civilian tow truck flat tow a vehicle but tying down a steering wheel is not a good idea. When turning a towed vehicle, with the steering tied down or even with bungee cords it will try to push the towing vehicle straight. If the towing vehicle has enough weight in the rear it will/might work but you are still not in complete control. IMO Wayne

 

[M1075]

How far from medicine park are you in that picture? My mom lives there.

Dirt

We were close to Medicine Park. In the pic, that is the underpass of the I-44 turnpike on HWY 49.

 

[M1075]

I realize that many of us have flat towed trucks at high speeds and for considerable distance but FWIW I think the TM for the truck and the towbar TM both state in bold letters to never tow a vehicle without and operator in it to steer. Maybe the DOD knows best?

Lance

I don't know of anyone using a second driver in the towed vehicle so maybe that is a problem.

Which TMs are you finding this requirement in? The 1972 towbar manual (TM 9-4910-496-10) mentions it as an option, but I can't find anything about a second driver in the 1994 towbar manual (TM 9-4910-593-12&P) or the 2006 deuce manual (TM 9-2320-361-10).

After this episode, I don't think I will be flat towing any more dueces. I will use the tru-hitch instead.

 

[M1075]

Never seen a civilian tow truck flat tow a vehicle but tying down a steering wheel is not a good idea. When turning a towed vehicle, with the steering tied down or even with bungee cords it will try to push the towing vehicle straight. If the towing vehicle has enough weight in the rear it will/might work but you are still not in complete control. IMO Wayne

Looks like we have some good input from people with different opinions/approaches. That was my intent for this thread, thanks!

 

[emr]

air up the front tires of towed vehicle to max air when ever possible, stay off soft pack, only turn on hard pack, if on soft pack then and ONLY then do u need a steer man in towed vehicle, never ty off a steering wheel, never have anyone in a towed vehicle on a public road. illegal no matter where U are and dangerous.make wide turns,never enter an area where u will not be able to make wide turns, there are millions of tow bared miles in the military, all with these rules, stay under 40 mph,

 

[Tackettr]

Whoops! We bend the heck out the "40 MPH" rule.

 

[Floridianson]

I put the tow bar on the axle not the bumper shackles. No problem so far.

 

[jesusgatos]

There is so little caster angle on a Deuce that getting it to go straight while holding on to the wheel is sometimes a challenge, much less while towing it!

Someone pointed out a while ago that the leafspring pads can be reversed to increase the caster. Been meaning to do that on Mah Deuce.

In most (all?) states it is illegal for someone to be in a towed vehicle. Let a professional do it!! Wayne

Really? I thought so too, but someone told me that's not true - as long as there is radio communication between the two. We were talking about having passengers in 5th wheel trailers. Never really looked into it any further though.

 

[Dodge man]

I've always been told that it's illegal for anyone to ride in a towed vehicle here in Florida but I can't state that I know for a fact that it's true.

Steering trouble such as this is widely known in the M-37 community. The only real solution that anyone has found AFIK is to trailer the vehicle or to adjust the castor so that it follows the tow vehicle properly. I dont know how hard that is to do on a Deuce but it's something to consider.

 

[jesusgatos]

Let's see if someone can give us a definitive answer about that. I'm curious (but not curious enough to go look it up).

 

[airbornebandsman]

I realize that many of us have flat towed trucks at high speeds and for considerable distance but FWIW I think the TM for the truck and the towbar TM both state in bold letters to never tow a vehicle without and operator in it to steer. Maybe the DOD knows best?

Lance

I have never seen that printed and ever since I have been in, unles you are in a combat zone and need to move now, nobody is allowed to ride in a towed vehicle. If it will not track right or needs someone to steer it you call a wrecker.

 

[M813A1]

" The only time to use a second driver is if you turn onto soft ground, gravel or dirt any other time you never, never use a second driver !!! Just as EMR said " you never, use a second driver on the hwy it is dangerous and illegal in some cases !! M1075 your problem may have happened because the weight of the M915 is to light in the rear and when you hit a bump that allowed the duece wheels to turn ?? When I pulled warthogs truck from ft sill i had no problems but also my 5 ton is heavier then the duece !!!

 

[papercu]

This is not about towed vehicle but in answer to your 5th wheel question.
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

Always keep in mind that a LEO can write a tricket for most any reason they want to, it is left up to YOU, to defend yourself at a later date. Wayne