Hear ye! Hear ye! To all M1031 contact truck owners!!

[b4thundr]

Yes you are, the controller runs the engine part of the truck, and air compressor part is separate, Thanks!! Doug

Thanks for your words!! I did feel at the start of this,....why am I doing this?? I could just keep this information all to my self not tell a soul and let everybody else figure it out. BUT I'm trying to be a nice guy and help others out. yeah im trying to recoup some of the money that I have put out there, but i don't think I'm gonna become a millionaire over night. I have sold one controller so far and I'm looking forward to helping the owner install it!

 

[south101]

If this is all about sharing knowledge, helping fellow hobbiests (including newbies) out with info to further our fun at minimal cost, I am very willing to document how you can put together a control system here a really minimal cost. Heck, I don't even own one a 1031, but being the relative expert in this field, As far as control systems go, this is as about as simple as it gets. You have one microcontroller controlling one servo given one maybe two inputs. You can get a consumer grade generic off the shelf controller for about $20.00. The only other items you need are a sensor to pull in your tach signal (engine rpm and/or pto shaft rpm) and the servo actuator which I assume you will already have. That and about 20 to 30 lines of code for your controller are all you'll need. Of course, you'll need an enclosure. If anyone is interested, let's do this and don't forget to bring on the questions and comments.

We should probably pull a new thread for this.

Regards,
C. Southe, newbie, engineer, free marketeer

 

[b4thundr]

If this is all about sharing knowledge, helping fellow hobbiests (including newbies) out with info to further our fun at minimal cost, I am very willing to document how you can put together a control system here a really minimal cost. Heck, I don't even own one a 1031, but being the relative expert in this field, As far as control systems go, this is as about as simple as it gets. You have one microcontroller controlling one servo given one maybe two inputs. You can get a consumer grade generic off the shelf controller for about $20.00. The only other items you need are a sensor to pull in your tach signal (engine rpm and/or pto shaft rpm) and the servo actuator which I assume you will already have. That and about 20 to 30 lines of code for your controller are all you'll need. Of course, you'll need an enclosure. If anyone is interested, let's do this and don't forget to bring on the questions and comments.

We should probably pull a new thread for this.

Regards,
C. Southe, newbie, engineer, free marketeer

Listen here Private!! (j/k) If you want to do this go right ahead I'm not gonna stop you from doing this. But a $20.00 dollar controller? Really? How long do you think its gonna last? In my 35 years on this earth i have found out that cheap stuff is exactly that....cheap. You talk like an Engineer, sure looks good on paper but let see it in the real world, on a real truck, oh and don't forget in working order. So please feel free to do this.......oh wait your gonna have to find a truck first to experiment on too. And is gonna have to be combatible with the controller that's on the truck now. The other thing that you should think about is, some people actually use these trucks for work like me.....so when I want it to work...guess what....yep you guessed it I want it to work!! But hey that's just me being silly.
Thanks!!
Doug

 

[gwag]

If this is all about sharing knowledge, helping fellow hobbiests (including newbies) out with info to further our fun at minimal cost, I am very willing to document how you can put together a control system here a really minimal cost. Heck, I don't even own one a 1031, but being the relative expert in this field, As far as control systems go, this is as about as simple as it gets. You have one microcontroller controlling one servo given one maybe two inputs. You can get a consumer grade generic off the shelf controller for about $20.00. The only other items you need are a sensor to pull in your tach signal (engine rpm and/or pto shaft rpm) and the servo actuator which I assume you will already have. That and about 20 to 30 lines of code for your controller are all you'll need. Of course, you'll need an enclosure. If anyone is interested, let's do this and don't forget to bring on the questions and comments.

We should probably pull a new thread for this.

Regards,
C. Southe, newbie, engineer, free marketeer

Seriously right away in this thread you jumped in to stir the pot with your .02 worth even though you had no idea what we were talking about. Then to further muddy up the board you started your own thread about what rpm the controller you admitted to not even knowing what it was or does runs at. That question would have been more than welcome in this thread.
You keep dropping in & stirring the pot & now you seem to want a piece of the action since you have made yourself an expert on this in about a week without ever so much as seeing, let alone owning one of these vehicles.
Maybe you should do like most folks on this board go buy an MV, use the search feature, get some experience to go with your theorys, then come back and tell us all how smart you really are.
This has been my point all along about a few people being butthurt about this deal, it's a very limited market to a bunch of people who will admit to being cheap. The last thing Doug needs is some coat tail riding self proclaimed expert wanting a piece of the pie. It's not a very big pie!
People like you who join up and immediatly start posting about anything to get some attention are why I haven't been on this board for a week or so and I would not had been back today except for the email alert on your post. I had to come read it because quite frankly your instant expertise and the audacity of your offer blew me away. Have a great Day!

*Edit Maybe you should start your own thread about your theoritcal gizmo that is much cheaper than Dougs. I'm sure it works great on paper, most things do!

 

[gwag]

I am not familiar with this vehicle, but curious as to the function of the control box. Can someone explain what exactly these do?

Regards,
C southe

Search Newb! 8 days from not having the faintest to being the "relative expert"

 

[gwag]

Generate a reference signal, sample the line output frequency, adust the throttle accordingly (within defined safe operating range) and repeat. Seems simple enough. Is this a common equipment failure on this vehicle type?

Second post and you got it all figured out, yes these must fail regularly or no one would be interested!

 

[gwag]

Irrespective of how well it works, his implementation does look cleaner compared to what was there.

Yes that was my point 3 posts above yours!

 

[south101]

The expense is not in the electronics itself. The expense is the engineering and marketing that goes into the product. If you think that the total of the constituent components in your product amounts to more than $10 - $15 bucks, you are deluding yourself. I was following this post to see your application and offer suggestions for improvement, but given the viciousness of the attacks and self aggrandizing by a few blowhards who jumped on anyone asking questions, I had enough. I am going to layout a schematic and parts list so that anyone so inclined could build one from off the shelf parts, cheap. If they want a finished product with your technical support, they can buy yours.

 

[gwag]

The expense is not in the electronics itself. The expense is the engineering and marketing that goes into the product. If you think that the total of the constituent components in your product amounts to more than $10 - $15 bucks, you are deluding yourself. I was following this post to see your application and offer suggestions for improvement, but given the viciousness of the attacks and self aggrandizing by a few blowhards who jumped on anyone asking questions, I had enough. I am going to layout a schematic and parts list so that anyone so inclined could build one from off the shelf parts, cheap. If they want a finished product with your technical support, they can buy yours.

Like I said go buy an M1031 and your $15 gizmo, make it work then you have my attention and respect. Till then you are the blowhard going from not knowing what it is to being the relative expert in 8 days. Anyone with your superior education, attitude, & expertise can probably DRAW one up but most of us here like to deal in real things not drawings.
You haven't seen a vicious attack yet the forum I frequent most of the time would have seriously roasted you with foul language then banned you after about your 3rd or 4th post. Quit whining & show us your'e the relative expert instead of telling us all about it.
I encourage you to do your drawing then someone on here will build it then it can be your problem to get them programmed & make them work for free. For someone so smart you are sure having a hard time wrapping your big brain around what this is all about, a guy who has already done it & made it work, trying to help out other members & get compensated for his time & investment. I would be interested to know what you will be charging for your services or are you gonna do it to be petty cause you got your feelers hurt?

 

[gwag]

Thanks b4, Just want to say a couple of things reference some comments made earlier. I agree with gwag, some of these guys come on here making comments on someone trying to help. They gripe about everything from price to "you didn't put it in right column". Guys just come on site brand new & complain even when they don't even have the ------ truck to even use the item. If you can't say something good, best to keep ------ shut. I have seen many posts ref. the M1031 w/pto version that they could not get to work. That nice truck with 12kv gen ain't worth a ---- w/o the gen. Then when some locates solution help they want to know where to get it so they can get it themselves direct and save a dollar.
Sorry abt being so sarcastic, but enough is enough. I have seen good members slowly dropping out of this site because of crap like this.
To the newbies that seem to know everything abt these MVs but will get thier 1st one next week, suggest you read up on TM's, then just look & read past posts before putting someone down who is trying to help.
I FEEL BETTER NOW --Now I await my chastizing.

Nice to hear from some one who understands what this is all about!

 

[b4thundr]

Working in the agricultural field i have found this to be very true. things that work MUST>>>
A. work (Don't sell me a prototype and then tell me oh we don't know how to fix it?)
B. be serviceable (we dont need an engineering degree to fix a problem.)
C. be simple (it only does what it has to do and it does it well!)

I love the smell of a burnt engineer in the morning!!

I cant tell you how many times this has happened!

 

[namedpipes]

I would imagine most of the hardware, software and background info is "out there" to be had without paying b4 for anyone with the time/interest/skills to ferret them out.

OTOH if I had a need for what he's figured out it might be worth my while to pay him for what I could do on my own esp since it sounds like it adds up to the same amount anyway.

OTOOH I wouldn't want to be b4 if his solution didn't work for the guy that just laid out $500

 

[gwag]

I would imagine most of the hardware, software and background info is "out there" to be had without paying b4 for anyone with the time/interest/skills to ferret them out.

OTOH if I had a need for what he's figured out it might be worth my while to pay him for what I could do on my own esp since it sounds like it adds up to the same amount anyway.

OTOOH I wouldn't want to be b4 if his solution didn't work for the guy that just laid out $500

I agree with you south101 says it's a $15 deal then rattles off a list of other stuff you will need plus programming and the equipment, software and the know how to do it.
Several posts ago I basically challenged these guys who have a problem with the price to tell me what they think a fair price would be & not one person has replied to that.
Now we have a guy who thinks he's been viciously attacked, does not have a contact truck and didn't know what the control was or what it did 8 days ago who is going to tell everyone how to make thier own for $15-$20
What's really funny he participated in the skepticism in this thread & now he thinks he'll just tell everyone how to build thier own, should be fun to watch it come back around anyway!

 

[Keith_J]

There is a lot more to the governor than just a few lines of code in a digital processor. The original electronic governor is an analog computer with integral, derivative and droop adjustable. Plus it has add on ramp generator and overspeed protection.

Analog computers offer much faster response, greater immunity to interference and environmental conditions. Sure, digital governors offer better performance when the load nearly equals the prime mover. But on this application, the prime mover is 155 Hp while the load is under 20 Hp (12 kW is a little over 16 Hp, add a few for cooling air, bearing drag and electrical inefficiency).

 

[trukhead]

WOw!!

There is a lot more to the governor than just a few lines of code in a digital processor. The original electronic governor is an analog computer with integral, derivative and droop adjustable. Plus it has add on ramp generator and overspeed protection.

Analog computers offer much faster response, greater immunity to interference and environmental conditions. Sure, digital governors offer better performance when the load nearly equals the prime mover. But on this application, the prime mover is 155 Hp while the load is under 20 Hp (12 kW is a little over 16 Hp, add a few for cooling air, bearing drag and electrical inefficiency).

So are you saying the integral and derivative are actual calculus calculations built in to the code for determining parameters-inputs-values? What is droop? Are analog programing counting blips off a hall effect wheel like old ignition systems?

Very cool thinking. Makes me almost want to fetch the college calc book and key and go play.

Working in the agricultural field i have found this to be very true. things that work MUST>>>
A. work (Don't sell me a prototype and then tell me oh we don't know how to fix it?)
B. be serviceable (we dont need an engineering degree to fix a problem.)
C. be simple (it only does what it has to do and it does it well!)

I love the smell of a burnt engineer in the morning!!

I cant tell you how many times this has happened!

You have me interested in m1031 s. So your control unit system can govern a 6.2 diesel to run the generator as precisely as a dedicated unit like an 002-3-4 etc. for extended periods of time to act as a backup generator for a house. I'm just asking as I have no experience with the M1031.
Thank you for this thread and your work to allow another option for the continued operation of these trucks.

 

[Keith_J]

Yes, analog computers can do derivative and integral measurements al la calculus far faster than any digital computer. Even partial derivative equations can be solved far faster. Modern computers can solve just as fast but you wouldn't want a 1 GHz computer with 2 GB of code where a simple analog electronic circuit will do just fine.

Coding an analog computer is done with circuit design and component specification.

Droop is drop in speed proportional to load. Alternating current generators (alternators) are required to have minimal droop to achieve 60 Hz output. The problem with mechanical governors is such a system is prone to hunting because damping is minimal. You either tolerate 1-3 Hz of droop or have 1-2 Hz of hunting. Not so with electronic governors.

Control systems is a subject I studied.

 

[b4thundr]

So are you saying the integral and derivative are actual calculus calculations built in to the code for determining parameters-inputs-values? What is droop? Are analog programing counting blips off a hall effect wheel like old ignition systems?

Very cool thinking. Makes me almost want to fetch the college calc book and key and go play.



You have me interested in m1031 s. So your control unit system can govern a 6.2 diesel to run the generator as precisely as a dedicated unit like an 002-3-4 etc. for extended periods of time to act as a backup generator for a house. I'm just asking as I have no experience with the M1031.
Thank you for this thread and your work to allow another option for the continued operation of these trucks.

yep the one on the farm service truck has been workin great for the past two years!

 

[Keith_J]

The only real problem with using this genset for home backup is the connection. If you want 120/240 split, you will have to reconnect the generator leads (12) in a parallel zig-zag instead of parallel wye.

See the Lima MAC manual for details. You cannot use the existing circuit breakers so another sub-panel would be required.

 

[Keith_J]

SECM flood lamp upgrade

The floodlamps that come with some SECMs are wired without a ground, mine were missing the wires so they were useless to me.

I found a useful modification using standard Leviton rubber plugs to replace the unsafe 2-wire twist locks with standard grounded NEMA 5-15. You reuse the existing twist lock base, the Leviton plug (UPC 78477 84142) screws right into the existing base using only 2 screws, this is fine for straight blade plug. Ground the plug to the chassis using a crimp eye and a short length of 14 AWG fine stranded wire.

I'll post pictures once finished. New lamps are available (300 watt 300R/3FL) online for $16.

I'm also making cords from 16/3 SJOOW cord and the same plugs and receptacles. Little 25 foot extension cords that should be fine for drills etc.

 

[Skinny]

Anyone looking for a Lima MAC 12kw generator, air compressor, and work light setup? Five hours on the unit, work lights still have original packing in them. Must sell...