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explain some tire sizes to me please?

citizensoldier

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Whats the biggest tire you can (safely) put on a stock 20" M35 bud rim? This would be keeping the duals in the rear. I have come accross some odd sizes and wondered what will work. 12.5R/20, 395/85 R20, 15.5/80 R20??? Thes are all the XL or XZL Michilen tires. Can you also install 1100/20's on a deuce without causing problems?
Give opinions, experiances, and even a hard time if you feel like it. But be nice.. :)
 

DDoyle

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The chassis for the vehicle was designed for 11.00-20 single tires, the 9.00-20 duals were an "afterthought" - that since became standard, although the army about 5 years ago returned to the 11.00-20 line of thinking, and singled out a lot of these trucks.

Sorry, no help on the radial issue.

Best,
David Doyle
 

73m819

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jwaller has 1100 duels on his deuce with enough clearance, hope this helps
 

citizensoldier

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Thanks guys

Any info on the radial sizes I listed? What does it take to single out a M35? I have heard you can get the rims off of a M135 or M34 and use them in the back. Is this true?
I have 1100/16 XL radials with radial tubes on my M37. They seem to be awsome combo but I just dont know what direction to go with my M109. Those super singles are tooo big but I would like some better off road performance along with stopping power on wet pavement. NDTs can be a bit scary in the rain. :shock:
 

DDoyle

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RE: Thanks guys

I'd be very carefully regarding sidewalls rubbing with dual 11:00-20 tires...I don't think it would take much of a load to cause this.

The offset of the rims of M135/M34 wheels is different from those of the M35 - the rear hubs (only) are reversed which brings them in line with the front tire. This is one of the main reasons that the single wheel trucks perform better off-road than do trucks with duals. With singles, they follow in the row plowed by the fronts - with duals, additional power is required to break a new "path" through the mud for the additional tire width on either side of the front tires' trail.

One factor that better engineering minds than me should consider when using increasingly larger tires is that this brings about a lot greater mass, and more rotational energy - that is, it takes more braking force to stop a HEMTT tire from spinning 60 mph than it does to stop a M151 tire from turning the same speed. I view the braking system of the G742-series trucks (deuces) as adequate - but not superior - in its stock situation - anything that adds to its burden - overloading the truck, increasing the speed, increasing the tire size beyond the 11:00-20 they were designed for - is creeping into the safety factor.

Best wishes,
David Doyle
 

Jones

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RE: Thanks guys

I need to clarify (at least in my own mind) the use of the term "rubbing". With radials, mounted too close together, the sidewalls may contact each other at the bottom but since both wheels turn together the sidewalls more bump into each other than rub. Take two inflated balloons and rub them against each other and the generated heat will make one or both pop sooner or later. Take the same two balloons and just press them against each other repeatedly and they act like cushions with very little heat or wear generated.
I think a greater consideration is the interference fit not allowing the radials to work as designed. Radials work by having soft sidewalls which allows the tread to stay flat to the road surface 'cause the sidewall does the extra flexing and keeps from trying to "lift" a portion of the tread. A spacer could be made to give additional clearance but that would only work as long as conditions could remain perfect. Lower or different tire pressures would throw you right back to the contact problem again.
 

DDoyle

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RE: Thanks guys

Whether termed rubbing or bumping - I feel certain that dual wheels contacting each other will lead to premature sidewall failure. Its been well over20 years since I worked for a tractor-trailer leasing firm - but I can say that I have never seen a highway vehicle design that included sidewall contact. And I fgure that the engineers at Michelin know more about this than I do, and they published this pdf http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/pdf/RVTIREGUIDE1.pdf#search="sidewall rub dual" , which specifically addresses this issue.

Hope this helps,
David Doyle
 

houdel

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RE: Thanks guys

OK, here is my $0.02.

1. A stock M35 will work just fine with dual 11:00x20s bias ply tires in the rear. You WILL lose a little tire to bed clearance, so in extreme off road conditions you may end up with the tires rubbing the underside of the bed.

2. I doubt dual 11:00x20 radials will work, as stated above radials "squish" at the road contact surface which MAY cause the tires to contact each other, which is NOT a desireable condition.

3. Stock M35 rims are 7.5" wide, and can handle up to a 12:00x20 tire. This is stamped on the rims of my M35.

4. M135 rims have about 1" less backspace than a M35 rim (i.e., the mounting surface of the rim is 1" closer to the centerline of the tire than a M35 rim). You CANNOT single out your rears simply by using M135 rims on the rear.

5. To single out the rears, you MUST reverse the rear hubs. The front and rear hubs are the same part number, the front hubs are already flipped. By flipping the rear hubs, you then have the rim mounting surface the same distance from the centerline of the truck, both front and rear. Once you have flipped the rear hubs, it doesn't make much difference whether you use M35 or M135 rims, as long as you use the same front and rear. I would use M35 rims, as the M35 hubs are designed to center the tires between the inner and outer wheel bearings. M135 rims will move the centerline 1" outboard of the bearing centerline. Not much significance, but since you already have the M35 rims on your truck, you might as well use them. All that M135 rims will do at this point is give you about 2" wider track. Might make the singles in the rear a little more esthetically pleasing, but I wouldn't bother! With 11:00 or 12:00 singles in the rear, your tires will now be 5"-6" inboard of the outer edge of the bed, which makes the truck look a little odd. The M34 Eager Beaver was made with single 11:00x20s in the rear, but the bed was several inches narrower, so it looked "normal".
 

citizensoldier

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2 cents???

Well I would pay 5 bucks for the 2 cents you just gave. Thank you thats the kind of info I was in need of. Now the plot thickens.. I can run 900/20 radials duels right? Are any of the above mentioned tire sizes near the 900/20 size? They are metric sizes and I am not sure how clost they are. Thank you agian you have been very informative and I am greatful. :lol:
 

M1075

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RE: 2 cents???

Lee's advice is good and accurate!

I have seen Army deuces with 11R20 XLs tires in the dual configuration. With that said, there is a difference between what *fits*, what *works*, and what is best. In response to your question on other tire sizes, here is what I have learned:

A 12.5R20 tire is the same diameter as the 9.00R20, just 3.5" wider.
A 14.5R20 tire is the same diameter as the 11.00R20, just 3.5" wider.
A 15.5R20 and 395/85R20 are the same diameter (46") and plenty wide (15.5").
None of these tires are ideally suited for duals (although I have seen dual 12.5R20s on a deuce).
Put these babies on as super singles!
 

citizensoldier

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Thanks again

Above he mentions the biggist tire you can run on a stock M35 rim is 1200/20. So the 1250R20 will not work on a stock rim? I am thinking of doing the hub flop and putting single 1250R/20 's on. If that will not work I will go down to the the 1100R/20 singles with stock rims and flipped hubs. Now one more question.. Will this hold the weight of a M109 shop van body?
 

BFR

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RE: Thanks again

It should be noted that the tires with ".50R20" in the name are smaller (diameter) than those w/o ...
So a 1200 20 (ndt) is a way bigger tire than a 12.50R20(radial)


Edit: Doh!!! look up two posts
 

citizensoldier

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edit

Its the same diameter but is wider I think. This is a concern when using the stock narrow rims. I have been told if you pull them in to far it can give you bad tire wear and performance. Its all starting to come together for me. You all have been a big help.
 
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