do i need a cdl for a 5 ton?

[MyothersanM1]

In CA you need a Class B CDL even for a Deuce. Why...3 axles over 6000lbs. gross. You might get away without a CDL with a bobbed truck if you get it re-rated. My 5-Ton is plated Historic and the only thing I have hauled in it is 2X4's for a home project. But our vehicle code says I need a CDL.

The best rule of thumb for driver's licensing is to follow the federal guidelines whether you use your truck for commerce or not. That way you are golden anywhere you operate. Who knows with this crazy economy you might end up having to drive a commercial truck to put bread on the table.

Don't be like the guy out here who watched his deuce carted away on a flatbed because he drove out of class. You also need to think about the legal ramifications especially if involved in an accident. Lawyers will go after anything these days. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Hammer]

I hate to nit pick here guys, but the deuce and 800 series are AIR ASSIST, which is NOT air over hydraulic.
Air assist (what we have), works the same as vacuum assist on any normal vehicle. If you loose your air pressure, you still have brakes, but they are a LOT harder to push.
Air over hydraulic works like on the 105 and larger trailers. If you loose air on these, you have NO BRAKES!

Air assist is normal for everyone to drive with.
Air over hydraulic requires the air brake endorsement.

 

[Ruppster]

whether or not one is in commerce is a tricky one. Ever haul an antique tractor to a pull where there is a prize? ever haul gravel for a buddy and he gave you a beer or something else of value? even if you don't place at the pulls technically you are in commerce as you may have received something for your troubles.

Okay, came across this when I was looking for something else. Question 21 asks about prize money.

Interpretation for General applicability. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


Ruppster

 

[Ruppster]

Ruppster, Do you have a link that has the Fed regulation you mentioned that exempts personal use trucks from the med card, annual inspection and CDL?

Here's some parts of Title 49 pertaining to CDL's:

Part 390.3: General applicability. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


The link above gives the following exception from Part 390:

(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to—

(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

The requirement for a CDL is covered by part 383:

Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


In it §383.3 says

§383.3 Applicability.
(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States.
(b) The exceptions contained in §390.3(f) of this subchapter do not apply to this part. The employers and drivers identified in §390.3(f) must comply with the requirements of this part, unless otherwise provided in this section.

Here's where the definition of both "Commerce" and "Commercial Motor Vehicle" comes in.

§383.5 Definitions

Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition.

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle—
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

On another note here's a seperate thread I came across that talks about CDL requirements:

CDL or NO CDL - Truckers Trucking Forum | Largest CDL Truck Driver Message Board

Hope some of the stuff on Title 49 helps. I looked in to some of the med card requirements and all I have found so far is "drivers of Commercial Motor Vehicles must have a DOT medical Exam". This falls back to the definition of Commercial Motor Vehicle.

Ruppster

 

[Scout]

I'm in NY, which adopted the federal DOT standards a few years ago so it should be the same in many other states. Medical cards are required for driving out of state. As far as CDL or not, I registered my M813 at 26,000# which is under the GVW that would require a CDL. I may be in violation because of three axles, but I'm pretty sure I'm OK. I have a class A CDL, but registered the truck for 26,000# so other people could drive it and to keep the registration fee down (I beleive it goes up signigicantly by weight)

 

[CGarbee]

In North Carolina, a M809 series truck requires that you have either a Class A or Class B license due to the weight of the truck. You DO NOT have to have a commercial license unless you are acting commecially, you can get a NON-Commercial Class A or B license. Same test, same cost, but no medical card/logbook/etc.

The only sure way to tell what you need in the state that you live is to check with your local DMV, almost all have this info on thier own websites and/or you can find out by asking the license examiners...

Good luck.

 

[joeM62]

I agree with the message above. Which of the 5tons are in the safe zone thats not pulling trailors just the truck alone? I thought it was the cargo and the road tractors.

 

[davo727]

How much are you 5 Ton guys paying for insurance a year? Thanks, Dave

 

[Ruppster]

How much are you 5 Ton guys paying for insurance a year? Thanks, Dave

That all depends on how it is registered and used. If it has commercial truck tags it can cost $75-$100 a month. If you have a good State Farm rep then you can get insurance on a non-commercial policy for $30-$60 per month. As an antique truck you can get insurance for $200-$300 a year.

Ruppster

 

[lsansone]

200 per year at gulfway

 

[L999here]

...go this route...

Believe this is the easiest and cheapest way to go. If you look at my avatar,you'll realize that I cannot drive that piece of armor anywhere without many legal and local problems....got to trailer it. That takes a BIG HEAVY TRAILER. Realized this would be a problem...so. #1 got a semi truck and titled,licensed and insured it as a 'FARM' vehicle. Almost every state has this option for pesonally owned heavy equipment that is not used for over-the-road for hire. #2 This was needed to obtain and haul an M172A1 25-ton low-boy military trailer...with air. #3 Also had to obtain a DOT # to leave my home state (IN),pick up trailer in VA and drive it home. However....#4 needed a CDL to drive state-to-state,so got a driver to go also. Can get complicated...but check out the 'FARM' vehicle way to go first. Much easier and a whole lot cheaper,....IMHO. Here's my set-up...

 

[MyothersanM1]

Being from a law enforcement background, I find the best source for the legality on this issue is your local and state commercial enforcement officers. I consulted both my city's officers and the state highway patrol. Remember these are the guys who are going to make your day miserable if they interpret the law against you.

I know, I know, "innocent until proven guilty". But...you are the one whose truck may sit in impound, who may pay fines and penalty assessments or who will flat out argue your stance on your belief of the legality in this issue in long drawn out court appearances.

Pay the fees, get the med. card, take the tests. You'll be glad you did.

BTW, check out this thread...
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/conversations/54663-earned-my-class-b-cdl.html#post629041

 

[Hammer]

I found the safest way is to get the CDL.
Register the truck as historic, collector, etc.
You are not supposed to haul anything with those plates, BUT, just get a trip permit for those rare occasions that you do.
Now, if you are always hauling stuff, then register it commercial at a weight you will be honestly hauling at.
Remember, trip permits are good for up to 80k gross weight. BUT you better have the CDL in hand for most states not to bother you (yes, I know there are work arounds, but with the CDL, they won't hassle you nearly as much.)

To me, the CDL is worth it for the LEO's to NOT hassle you. We are already doing enough things they don't know the full deal on. So why add one more thing to the pot for them to ponder/gripe about?

 

[chess]

anyone ever registered a 5 ton in ca? how much are the plates? is a cdl needed when its bobbed? this is the only thing holding me back from bobbing my m923.