injestor install question

[lew]

My friend PFC Bently is deploying next week and his wife is throwing a party saturday the 28th. He really loves my deuce and I would like to show up with it, however I have acquired a slight miss along with extra unburned fuel coming out of the stack. All six injectors have a good fuel supply and I beleive I have a broken injector spring. Not being familiar with this injector system I have some basic questions:
1) there seems to be a copper washer on the bottom of the injector, can I reuse it?
2) Are there any problems associated with removing each injector, unscrewing the bottom, inspecting each , then reinstalling?
The miss is absolutely fuel related and not a compression issue.
Thanks Gene

 

[Brian H.]

I know anything about the Deuce injection system, I will say what I do know.

In my past experiences, you must replace the washers on an injector. Some systems are higher PSI than others and you may get away with it. From what I know, the injectors are basically valves, and the injection pump sends high pressure fuel through the injector line, the high pressure overcomes the spring in the injector, which lets fuel through until the pressure drops below the spring pressure. If you've only got a slight miss and some un burned fuel smoke, the injector may just be dumping fuel (not spraying, just pouring) nto the chamber and it's still partially burning. Does the smoke ever clear up after it warms up?

 

[lew]

injector install

The smoke doesn't improve. I was actually driving the truck on the highway at about 55 mph when I noticed a loss of power along with a profuse diesel smell (had the top off). I guess my bigest concern is finding the replacement washers in Michigan in such a short time line.
Any ideas would be appreciated!
thanks, Gene

 

[G-Force]

Start the engine and loosen each injector line one at a time. The idle should get rough when you do this. This tells you that the cylinder is firing. Tighten the line back up and move to the next injector and do the same thing. When you get to one that doesn't change the idle that is the cylinder with the problem.

 

[lew]

injestor install ?

After cracking each line, then tapping on them till fuel came out, there was a HUGE miss. As Brian H. said one injector isn't right , but the engine still runs (just rough). I even tried using a harbor freight temp scanner and results were also vague. This leads me to removing each one and visually inspecting, just don't know where to get injector washers locally.
thanks, Gene

 

[Jake0147]

Get a couple of compression nuts and ferrules, and a piece of clear line. Install between the number six and number five injector. Start the engine. Watch for excessive bubbles. Next, switch your clear line to the position between four and five. Repeat until you find the offender. Flow in the return lines is rear to front. Air will be entering the injector that is not sealing correctly and continue all the way to the front.

No, the copper washer is not reusable. I won't pretend that it's never been done before. You're better off to have the right washer that fits well than an ill-fitting washer, even if said ill fitting washer is new. CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN, there's not a lot of "give" in a copper gasket... Peek down inside, it's not always clean in there.

I would not recommend disassembling an injector unless you have the ability to PROPERLY clean, inspect, and assemble it. You won't mess up the settings or anything from that end, but what works well before it came apart will most likely not ever go back quite right until it's properly attended to.

 

[mikew]

For what it is worth, you do not have to replace the COPPER washers. What you do need to do is: remove the copper washer from the injector, clean it well (no soot or crud, use sandpaper if necessary), heat it red hot with a torch (propane works best for me), let it cool slowly (don't dump water on it, just let it cool on it's own for a minute or two) then re-assemble. Heating the copper and letting it cool slowly "anneals" it (makes it soft again) and allows it to seal properly.

 

[Heavysteven]

I would be tempted to drop off the injector to a rebuilder. Have the cleaned and tested. Are there any companies that do this I have no clue.

On the washer have you checked McMaster.com? They seem to have every thing.

 

[bottleworks]

You can reuse the washers. It should be a one time use washer, but you can as long as it's clean. These injectors are of a standard Bosch injector design. Any diesel shop should be able to provide replacements.

 

[Ord22]

i agree with heavysteven,

take them to a place who rebiulds and test injectors. take all of them and make sure if any others are good or bad.

 

[broman78]

I found some copper washers at a bumper to bumper auto parts store. They were very course so go some sandpaper and I was good to go.

 

[RANDYDIRT]

You aren't having turbo issues are you? What about your air filter? This kinda sounds like an air issue instead of a fuel problem.

Dirt

 

[digitaldust]

there is not a turbo on Lew's truck and the air filter is clean truck run the same with or with the ail filter on the truck

 

[JasonS]

What I have read on the tractor forums is that the most common failure mode for this engine is a burned cylinider due to leaking injector.

 

[RANDYDIRT]

there is not a turbo on Lew's truck and the air filter is clean truck run the same with or with the ail filter on the truck

Sorry if I missed that information in the OP's post.

 

[WillWagner]

Start the engine and loosen each injector line one at a time. The idle should get rough when you do this. This tells you that the cylinder is firing. Tighten the line back up and move to the next injector and do the same thing. When you get to one that doesn't change the idle that is the cylinder with the problem.

Whay G-Force said is correct for a dead miss. A Bosch style injector is a normally closed device. When the pressure developed by the pump overcomes the opening set pressure of the spring in the injector, the injection starts. When the pressure falls off, that is the point when injection positively ends. There are springs and shims in the injector that are used to set the pop off psi. When a Bosch injector fails in the way of a spring being weak or breaking or if the shims break apart, the injection timing and duration changes. This causes smoke. No load will be white and if the engine is loaded, it will smoke black and sound like there is a marble in the cylinder. You find this in the same way as G-Force said to do. Crack the line...cover the nut with a folded up rag so you don't make a mess all over yourself, the truck and where you are working, and watch the smoke. If the truck has been driven any distance with a failed injector in this mode, the port, manifold and exh pipe will be coated with raw fuel. This can make it difficult to determine which cylinder is the culprit. Listen carefully to the engine, the tone should change when you come across the failed injector. If the injector has failed by splitting the side of the nozzle, this can cause the symptom Lew is seeing. The timing and duration change slightly but when the injection starts, instead of being forced through the holes in the nozzle, the fuel is pushed out the side, runs down between the nozzle and head and pours into the cylinder...no atomization. No atomization equals no burn and raw fuel out the tailpipe. Easiest thing to do is yank 'em all. Yes, the coppers can be reused if you can't find the replacements. Remember, they are not only seals, they are a critical part of the injection components. They set the protrusion of the injector. Multis don't spray into a bowl on the piston, they spray on the cylinder walls just above the crown of the piston. Put too thick of a copper in there, the injection is put too far up on the walls and bad things could happen, same with too thin. Spray on the piston and you melt that.

I just saw this, I have a bonus injector you can use if needed.

 

[lew]

Thanks for all the info and encouragement. With careful consideration I removed the bad injector, took it apart, found the broken spring, and proceeded to the local diesel injection shop. They reassembled the injector and dialed it in, but indicated a more thorough rebuild should be done soon on all 6 injectors (soon as money allows).
I made it to the predeployment party and both of the boys (Josh and Bill) were thrilled!
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Heavysteven]

How much does it cost to have one rebuilt?

 

[Ord22]

i'm glad you found the problem!

 

[grunex125]

How much does it cost to have one rebuilt?

I'd be interested in learning how much it costs to rebuild injectors as well.......... I know this is an old post, but I'm dealing with bad injectors right now as well.