Epic Tire Failure

[bratpackdad]

This is why I run T-831's

 

[MASIC]

Here’s what I know

These tires also need a higher flange on the rim to help support the side wall just above the bead. That is why you will find these tires mostly on bead locking or split rims. The steel belting in the bead is a lot more dense than the side wall and there is a transition right where the side wall separated from the bead in the picture. The other contributing factor is high tire pressures. With higher tire pressures your really working that steel belting while rolling down the road kind of like when you bend a coat hanger then work it back and forth rapidly until it breaks from heat buildup. When I worked for Schlumberger we noticed the same thing in the arctic with off road super singles mounted on standard highway wheels. We ended up modifying wheels used in farming applications that had taller rim flanges and never had a problem like this since.

 

[jollyroger]

I have heard from a few of my guys that the CTIS system failures on the A3 caused a lot of 14.50 tire failures due to regular deflate inflate cycles and the trucks sitting for long periods of time on flat tires. Then when the tire reinflates and is driven it is square for a while until the tire warms up. There is a point of no return when this cycle happens too much and the tire stays out of round. This can of course happen to any tire if they go flat regularly. However with the CTIS systems it was more prone to this problem.

This is why I steer away from the 14.50's unless they are new or never been mounted.

My Mom's Newell motor coach has Michelin OTR truck tires on it. We have to run the Michelin's because they are the only tire load rated high enough for her coach on the steer axle.

4 years ago my Dad had a Michelin steer tire let go at 75 MPH on I-25 in the coach. It dragged him into the center median but he got it shut down with minimal damage. It was scarry but no one got hurt. Before the trip we noticed some minimal weather checking on the sidewalls. The tires only had 30,000 miles on them so we did not think it was a big deal. It sure was. We asked around and the consensous was if the Michelin's show cracking on the sidewalls replace them.

Other than that we have not had a problem with Michelin's. However that's with new car and Light truck tires.

We just changed out our gooseneck trailer tires from Goodyears bias 7.00x16's load range E to some Marcher 7.00X16 bias load range E. Marchers were $70 ea and we could no longer get the Goodyears. We changed from the Goodyears because the tires were 12 years old and showing some weather checking and I overinflated one of the Goodyears and made a bulge in the sidewall. We figured it was time to do it and since we could not get the Goodyears we went cheap. DO NOT BUY MARCHER BRAND TIRES. They are Chinese manufactured tires. 4 out of the 8 on our trailer have seperated the tread in less than 5000 miles. The last tread seperation almost killed me. It was a wild ride.

We will avoid everything of Chinese manufacture from now on. We don't really go that direction very often but definitely will not in the future. We are in the process of filing a complaint with DOT.

We went to the new 235-85R16 Goodyear load range G trailer tires. $220 ea. but well worth it in the long run.

 

[gringeltaube]

Here’s what I know

These tires also need a higher flange on the rim to help support the side wall just above the bead. That is why you will find these tires mostly on bead locking or split rims. .......................................

Oh really? If so, then M35A3 wheels must also be inappropriate for these tires.....????
Please...!, may I suggest informing yourself a bit more about MPT tires and wheels, before posting such statements?

After that and and maybe a closer look at the rim of that particular custom built wheel you will find that the rim used is a 1pc, semi-drop center style, made by GKN USA, stamped W11-20, 2145195, and conforming exactly to the wheel size and specs required for 14.5R20 or 365/80R20 (MPT) tires.

FYI, the size and (inside) shape of the flange or horn on both - this 1pc rim vs the stock bolt-together A3 wheel is exactly the same!

The critical measurements of that rim appear in my drawing, below...


G.

 

[paulfarber]

it does'nt sound like you guys are running the recomended pressure for those tires. it should be stamped on the sidewall. there should be a pressure for single wheel or dual wheels. and i'm really sure it will be over 75 pounds. if you prefer a softer ride over safety, you are in for a rude awakening,and you might KILL somebody. i hope not.

They will not have a 'recommended' pressure, just a MAX INFLATION.

My 7.5x20s max out at 85psi yet the GMC placard says for the standard load 55psi is recommended, more PSI if carrying more weight.

Tire pressure, motor oil and religion... no safe way to discuss any of them

 

[MASIC]

Oh really? If so, then M35A3 wheels must also be inappropriate for these tires.....????
Please...!, may I suggest informing yourself a bit more about MPT tires and wheels, before posting such statements?

After that and and maybe a closer look at the rim of that particular custom built wheel you will find that the rim used is a 1pc, semi-drop center style, made by GKN USA, stamped W11-20, 2145195, and conforming exactly to the wheel size and specs required for 14.5R20 or 365/80R20 (MPT) tires.

FYI, the size and (inside) shape of the flange or horn on both - this 1pc rim vs the stock bolt-together A3 wheel is exactly the same!

The crytical measurements of that rim appear in my drawing, below...


G.

Really Oh Great man of knowledge! Are you here to cut people down who are trying to help? I did say and to quote “here is what I know”
Was this thread posted as a: question, statement, opinion drop or to get all hacked up?
Nowhere did I mention anything related to the MV tire installations with respect to what “I know” so I was not comparing apples to oranges in the first place! I was just adding opinions to this situation.
Do you know the answer? Oh God of Knowledge!
Please enlighten us with the answer to this mystery or did you join this discussion forum to be an ass?
Ask yourself this – Do you stretch that very same tire onto an original MV wheel ? why are they 2 piece then OB1 KA Noobi? Its not a 2 piece for just the reason for ease of tire change in the field alone!!!!!!!!
Think before you speak!

 

[Oldfart]

Here’s what I know

These tires also need a higher flange on the rim to help support the side wall just above the bead. That is why you will find these tires mostly on bead locking or split rims. The steel belting in the bead is a lot more dense than the side wall and there is a transition right where the side wall separated from the bead in the picture. The other contributing factor is high tire pressures. With higher tire pressures your really working that steel belting while rolling down the road kind of like when you bend a coat hanger then work it back and forth rapidly until it breaks from heat buildup. When I worked for Schlumberger we noticed the same thing in the arctic with off road super singles mounted on standard highway wheels. We ended up modifying wheels used in farming applications that had taller rim flanges and never had a problem like this since.

Notwithstanding the claim that the A3 rims are designed for the tire mentioned, It is indeed a fact that rim flange depth is a factor in tire bead support. Older CCKW deuces used wheels that had a shorter flange (even though they are snap ring wheels. It is hard to see the difference, but it exists. Those tire sizes were 7.50 x 20 and efforts to run 9.00 x 20's or 11.00 x 20's on these rims causes sidewall failure in the bead area. I have encountered difficulty using civilian tires on my M37 because of the 5 degree flange radius was not the same as my fancy civilian traction tires.

 

[MASIC]

Notwithstanding the claim that the A3 rims are designed for the tire mentioned, It is indeed a fact that rim flange depth is a factor in tire bead support. Older CCKW deuces used wheels that had a shorter flange (even though they are snap ring wheels. It is hard to see the difference, but it exists. Those tire sizes were 7.50 x 20 and efforts to run 9.00 x 20's or 11.00 x 20's on these rims causes sidewall failure in the bead area. I have encountered difficulty using civilian tires on my M37 because of the 5 degree flange radius was not the same as my fancy civilian traction tires.

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Knowledge is not learned but earned through experience!
And you Sir! Are, a man of great knowledge! J

 

[Oldfart]

That is because I am very old.

 

[jollyroger]

The old man knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff. I know a little about a lot or a lot about a little. Even being his padawan learner I will never know as much as he does.

 

[Silverback]

Max pressure is 80 psi, recommended pressure with a light load is 45 psi on highway. CTIS was not functioning so tires were checked with a gauge, we stopped and did a pressure check and temp check at 1 1/2 hour intervals, tires never got hot. Tire did have some checking/crazing on the sidewalls but I still believe that the belts separated causing the tread to come loose.

I don't have a lot of MV experience, but I do have over a million miles of OTR experience including super singles and running them at low pressures. I have had tires blow out before, properly inflated to the correct pressure for load, new tires, recap tires from our fleet (5 within 300 miles of installation) and I do agree for the most part that under inflation is the leading cause of tire failure and the reason for the thousands of gators on the sides of the highway, but not in this case.

I am thankful that no one was injured and no real damage occurred, other than the tire and the seat cover. I was going to take pictures today of the remainder of the tire, but got caught up in unloading and inspecting the other 3 M35A3's that were delivered today, one of which had a separated sidewall, evidently from sitting flat for a long period of time. At least 14 tires will end up being replaced out of the 21 on the trucks that came in today, either due to date codes or checking/crazing.

 

[bratpackdad]

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