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Saw an air braked M35a2 yesterday
- Thread starter Trango
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lacoda56
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I do maintain air brakes on off and on road applications, hydraulic brakes suck in ALL applications, PERIOD!!! But then, I've just been doing this for the last 35 years, what do I know.
wreckerman893
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I think hydrolic disc brakes would be more practical......as pointed out too much stuff hanging down in harms way if you intend to do much offroading.
I saw an ad in one of the offroad mags that offered an adaptor kit to put discs on a Rockwell axle.
I saw an ad in one of the offroad mags that offered an adaptor kit to put discs on a Rockwell axle.
tm america
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Nice set up..but i think i would put disc brakes on mine before doing that,.they are self cleaning and self adjusting. Plus i would like to add another master cylinder and drive shaft brake for an e brake..while still keeping the stock parking brake.
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IMO, air brakes would be an improvement but not so much that I'd want to do the conversion.
The only problem we've ever had with air brakes in off-road applications is mud and dirt getting inside the brake chambers. When stuff gets inside the chambers it will eat the pancakes up in short order. This is easily solved though by making sure the rod boot and the plug for the caging bolt hole stays intact.
The only problem we've ever had with air brakes in off-road applications is mud and dirt getting inside the brake chambers. When stuff gets inside the chambers it will eat the pancakes up in short order. This is easily solved though by making sure the rod boot and the plug for the caging bolt hole stays intact.
DieselBob
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I would say it depends on the manufacture design. We had Mack DM600 that were off road dump haul trucks and the brake cans where mounted high on the backing plate facing in to the center and had very little trouble and damage problems. We also had a few Autocars and GMC generals that we where constantly replacing bent and broken cans because they where mounted like the ones shown on the converted deuce. Those low mounted cans are fine for a road truck but I wouldn't give you a nickle for them if I was going off road where there are rocks or stumps. My
DieselBob
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One plus is that it take about 5 minutes to replace the pancake and your back up compared to replacing a wheel cylinder.
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we don't have sealed drums, the mud and crap can still get in, can get into the wheel cylinders, the axles under a deuce or a 5t are or were standard axles used in a lot of trucks and other applications, could be found with both hyd. and air, if you could find a OLD truck junk yard, most likely you could find whats needed for the conversion
somebody on site found what was needed for a 5t under a brockway
somebody on site found what was needed for a 5t under a brockway
jesusgatos
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Way too vulnerable. I'm going to do that HydroMax conversion.
wehring
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Hey Bob
Bob,
Please give me a call. I would like to revisit this topic. What auction was it at? When? Was the FD logo still on the door? Any info to help me track down the gearhead that did this will be of great help.
Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
Bob,
Please give me a call. I would like to revisit this topic. What auction was it at? When? Was the FD logo still on the door? Any info to help me track down the gearhead that did this will be of great help.
Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
hemichallenger
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S cam air brakes are the way to go. The air over disc setup is no better than drum brakes.
They are even worse if you off road them.
They are even worse if you off road them.
juddspaintballs
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I'd love to have air brakes on a deuce...but, the way they are setup on that one makes them way too vulnerable for off road. Mostly I like the parking brake side of air brakes because you know once you set it, it's not going anywhere unless your rear axle falls off. I suppose a decent compromise would be a parking/emergency brake on the driveline just prior to the the first rear axle. It wouldn't require modifying the existing brakes, but you could set it up such that it activates if your air pressure drops to 20-40psi or whenever you pop the button. Hmmmm
rwbrown72
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Where are the tons of pics?
Hydraulic brakes are simpler, cheaper, and more reliable long term than air brakes. That is why they are used on every car and light/medium weight truck on the road today. Look at all of the rigmarole that truckers have to go through with air brake systems: Daily checks and maintenance, special training and licenses, finesse with the brake treadle... With hydraulic brakes, that can be safely put off to an annual maintenance program. Anyone that can find the brake pedal can make hydraulic brakes work.
Air brake systems had such a bad reputation for catastrophic failure in the 1950's and 60's that the ICC (now DOT) had to insist on double redundant safety systems on every axle; spring brakes that prevent the vehicle from moving even one inch if the air system had a failure anywhere; alarms and gauges to alert the driver to catastrophic failure; and special training for every driver. These systems add four or five thousand dollars to the cost of every truck. The past and present hazards of air brake systems are permanently enshrined in the special training, and constant checking every truck driver is required to get/do before he is allowed to drive an air brake equipped vehicle on the road.
Why would anybody put up with air brakes?
Pretty much for the same reason that some folks want automatic transmissions and power steering: The chief advantage to the air brake system is also its chief disadvantage: the driver doesn't feel any more pedal pressure for heavy loads and hard braking than for light loads and easy braking. A secondary advantage is trailers are super easy to connect, and add no additional braking effort.
A properly set up and maintained air assisted hydraulic system gives you all of the braking the deuce needs, and gives you easy trailer connection too. The best of all worlds in my opinion.
-Chuck
Air brake systems had such a bad reputation for catastrophic failure in the 1950's and 60's that the ICC (now DOT) had to insist on double redundant safety systems on every axle; spring brakes that prevent the vehicle from moving even one inch if the air system had a failure anywhere; alarms and gauges to alert the driver to catastrophic failure; and special training for every driver. These systems add four or five thousand dollars to the cost of every truck. The past and present hazards of air brake systems are permanently enshrined in the special training, and constant checking every truck driver is required to get/do before he is allowed to drive an air brake equipped vehicle on the road.
Why would anybody put up with air brakes?
Pretty much for the same reason that some folks want automatic transmissions and power steering: The chief advantage to the air brake system is also its chief disadvantage: the driver doesn't feel any more pedal pressure for heavy loads and hard braking than for light loads and easy braking. A secondary advantage is trailers are super easy to connect, and add no additional braking effort.
A properly set up and maintained air assisted hydraulic system gives you all of the braking the deuce needs, and gives you easy trailer connection too. The best of all worlds in my opinion.
-Chuck
hemichallenger
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Looks like people do not understand air brakes to me. Or mabey do not want to get an air brake indorcement on your drivers licence.
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wehring
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air brakes
I am not sure where the air brake drama is based. I have trucks with both and I much prefer the air brakes. I am shell shocked with the deuce brakes because I recently joined the pedal-to-the-floor club and I GUARANTEE you that it is not due to a lack of maintenance. I am in the shop every weekend with these trucks and I am very active about maintaining a well kept machine.
A bobber with air brakes is imminent. I am on the learning curve but moving forward.
Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
I am not sure where the air brake drama is based. I have trucks with both and I much prefer the air brakes. I am shell shocked with the deuce brakes because I recently joined the pedal-to-the-floor club and I GUARANTEE you that it is not due to a lack of maintenance. I am in the shop every weekend with these trucks and I am very active about maintaining a well kept machine.
A bobber with air brakes is imminent. I am on the learning curve but moving forward.
Justin Wehring
979 997 3112
Given the choice I would take a deuce with air brakes over any deuce with single circuit brakes, for that matter I'd much rather the truck stopped dead and stuck than not being able to stop 7 tons or steel. I do daily inspections of my brakes for just that reason.
Even with the redundancies in the typical lite truck, hydraulic failure can be a bad thing. Early anything had it's problems and an air system that requires air to stop isn't a great design. Air over gives the ability to have some braking with air failure but not great in emergency stoping situations. Scary to imagin loseing air while slamming on the breaks.
Obviously this has all been discussed many times before. That said everything has it's place.
Even with the redundancies in the typical lite truck, hydraulic failure can be a bad thing. Early anything had it's problems and an air system that requires air to stop isn't a great design. Air over gives the ability to have some braking with air failure but not great in emergency stoping situations. Scary to imagin loseing air while slamming on the breaks.
Obviously this has all been discussed many times before. That said everything has it's place.
Oh, do tell!
The fact that there NEEDs to be an air endorsement for drivers licenses is proof that there is inherent danger in air brake systems. I know what they are, do you?
Tell us your side of the story.
-Chuck
hemichallenger
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I do understand air brakes and i do understand deuce brakes. I would rather push on the brakes and
loose some air than push on the brakes and loose some fluid. I also have lost the brakes on a deuce.
And i do have an air brake indorcement on my cdl that I have had since 1976.
Mabey that is why I want air brakes on a deuce.
loose some air than push on the brakes and loose some fluid. I also have lost the brakes on a deuce.
And i do have an air brake indorcement on my cdl that I have had since 1976.
Mabey that is why I want air brakes on a deuce.
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