Scavenging Fuel - Can a Deuce Do It?

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

The Basic Question:
Can the Deuce SCAVENGE FUEL from Large Underground Storage Tanks (LUSTs) such as are located at “gas stations”?

In other words… Can the In-Tank Electric Fuel Pump LIFT a column of Diesel Fuel from a depth of 8 - 20 feet below itself?

The Scenario:
Hypothetically, imagine that the SHTF Event has occurred. People all over are evacuating. The power grid is juiceless. While there may be plenty of stranded and abandoned vehicles from which fuel might be had, there will exist LARGE quantities of useful fuel patiently waiting to be sucked up from LUSTs with no power for the pumps.

The Theory:
Your deuce is getting thirsty. You pull in to any service station, identify the fill-tube for the Diesel Tank. Next you breach the padlocked cap with your handy bolt-cutter, drop a line from your standard in tank fuel pump. Then you flip a diverter valve, and flip a switch to reverse the in-tank fuel pump, thus evacuating any air from the deep draft line that you‘ve threaded into the LUST. Once you’ve created a column of fuel from LUST level to your fuel tank, you reset the polarity to the in-tank pump and suck up all of the diesel that you need.

Technical Concerns:
1. Has the Military ever created a “KIT” for scavenging fuel?
2. Is the In-Tank Fuel Pump reversible?
3. Does the In-Tank Fuel Pump have the “UMPH” to suck the fuel UP from the depth it would be at in the LUST?
4. Has anyone out there done this by either the proposed method or via another technology?

Side Note:
If this all works for LUST Scavenging operations, it could easily also work for sucking fuel from other vehicles and "ground level" tanks.

Thanks for your input and commentary.

 

[nk14zp]

Best bet is an air operated pump.

 

[ODdave]

NOPE, pump won't do it.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Best bet is an air operated pump.

Thanks. An air operated pump is certainly a viable alternative, but is yet another "accessory" that might duplicate equipment already on board. To multi-task existing components has advantages (and disadvantages) that I'd like to exploit if its feasible.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

NOPE, pump won't do it.

WHAT won't the pump do?
- Reverse flow? or
- Lift from the LUST depth?

Thanks

 

[OldDominionIron2]

I'd rather have a hand operated pump with a hose that wouldn't collapse on the suction side. Just drop the hose into the LUST and fill up your tank.

 

[ODdave]

if you where to take one apart you would see why, sorry its the wrong time of the wrong day of the year to explain this, Gimmpy would understand......

 

[Heavysteven]

Typically pumps with impellers are non reversible.

Alternate...
A simple solution would be a hand operated transfer diesel pump from Northern Tool. They last forever and we use them on our 50 totes.

I can't think of a way to use the in tank pump. Maybe a venture on the discharge side.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I'd rather have a hand operated pump with a hose that wouldn't collapse on the suction side. Just drop the hose into the LUST and fill up your tank.

Thanks.
That was my "next best" thought when I began exploring this possibility.

Do you know of any good hand pumps and/or suppliers?

 

[Alredneck]

Have you ever pulled an in tank pump?

Lifting fuel from the bottom of the stock fuel tanks is not bad but the pump wasnt designed to be used for the purpose you propose. the impeller is located at the bottom of the pump and is protected by a screen, you wouldnt be able to run a hose from the fuel tank into the lust and expect it to work. If you pulled your pump and dropped it down the L.U.S.T along with enough hose and wire to provide 24Vs 7psi worth of fuel pressure ( stock pumps rated t around 7psi ) may pump fuel up 20ft and fill your rig back up, But having a extra hand pump or pneumatic pump world work a whole lot better and be much faster, dont want to stay in one place for to long or the quick zombies may get ya!

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Have you ever pulled an in tank pump?

Lifting fuel from the bottom of the stock fuel tanks is not bad but the pump wasnt designed to be used for the purpose you propose. the impeller is located at the bottom of the pump and is protected by a screen, you wouldnt be able to run a hose from the fuel tank into the lust and expect it to work. If you pulled your pump and dropped it down the L.U.S.T along with enough hose and wire to provide 24Vs 7psi worth of fuel pressure ( stock pumps rated t around 7psi ) may pump fuel up 20ft and fill your rig back up, But having a extra hand pump or pneumatic pump world work a whole lot better and be much faster, dont want to stay in one place for to long or the quick zombies may get ya!

Ah, I now get the picture and the utter impracticality of my "theory". THANKS !

Well, now that that issue has been put to bed.... Let's pursue the alternate proposals for getting the job of Scavenging from LUSTs done.....

What are some other thoughts on the matter?????

 

[197thhhc]

You could prepare your fuel tank ahead of time by putting a hole in the top and brazing in the discharge end of a hand pump or air pump (If it were air you could plumb a hardline with a valve to it) Mount the pump suction end down off the rear (tire side) of the tank. Pull up the LUST drop a hose and attach it to the pump. You could fill up and be on your way before any zombie is the wiser.

 

[Josh]

There are military fuel transfer pumps that use the slave recepticle to power em.

Hammer has one. Belive he said it will shoot a solid 1 1/2in stream of WMO several feet. Id suggest PMing him about it.

 

[dc3coyote]

I am not familiar with the set up for the tanks, but what about capping off any vent, and using the air compressor to pressurize the tank, and dropping a hose down into it.

 

[Alredneck]

There are military fuel transfer pumps that use the slave recepticle to power em.

Hammer has one. Belive he said it will shoot a solid 1 1/2in stream of WMO several feet. Id suggest PMing him about it.

That would be awesome to see! Not to clean up!

 

[Alredneck]

DC, when I first read this thread I was thinking the same thing at first but there are no less than two problems.

1. How much void is between the fluid and the rest of the LUST tht would need to be filled with compressed air. If topped off might not take much, but considering these hold 100-1000s of gals, it would take a boat load of air!

2. These tanks even though in the ground still have vents so they dont implode while you suck gas into your car during a fill up. You would have to find all vents and seal them for the tank to be pressurized!

Like said before it would be easier and faster with some other type pump, hand, rotary, electric, or pneumatic! I have no real good reason why I know these things!

Perhaps chance favors the prepared mind!

 

[Alredneck]

Also some stuff to consider

Standard Industry Colors for fuel.......... (round metal lids on tanks)
green = diesel
yellow = kero
white = reg. unlead
blue = mid grade
red = super

Also here is a guide to newer style gas stations you will most likely come across!

About Gas Stations 56K get popcorn upd:6/21 pg7 - AR15.COM

Also things to consider, older abandoned fuel stations still may have fuel in the tanks, fuel is paid for when its delivered so the fuel company doesnt come back and suck it out if you default on your loan/mortagage. It may be old but if SHTF its better than nothing! Only bad thing is someone may have got to it first!

 

[dc3coyote]

I thought the same thing, but I wanted to put it out there for any other type situations where it may be usefull.
Harbour freight makes a self priming fuel pump that I would use in that situation.

 

[wsucougarx]

Outstanding topic Coldwarrior. Never thought about until now. Definately some very usefull info!

 

[srodocker]

for guys running WMO theres some room underneath the bed above the gas tank to maybe mount a pump of some sort so you can pump out of barrels into your tank or something along those lines. just a idea