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12 volt headlight mod thoughts

DUG

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Dug,

Lots of good ideas, but nobody has answered your questions yet. I'll forget alternatives to your plan and just answer your questions for you. See below.. :)


Although not a question I do have a comment; This sounds like a good plan to me. Very easy to convert back to stock should you (Or the next owner) ever see a need to do so.


You can get headilght sockets from most any auto parts store for under $5.00 each.


Those realys are as the spec sheet states, one of the most popular in the automotive industry. Yes, they are plenty for your needs.


That will depend on 3 things. The voltage being used, the amperage drawn by the load (your lights) and the length of the wire. Here is a link to a chart for both 12v and 24v use. It is very easy to use. The left column is the amperage your load will use, the top line is the gauge of wire to use. The center of the chart is the length of the wire you will need. One key thing to remember, if you ever have any question, the larger size the better. Other than costing more (Not really an issue in the smaller sizes) and being harder to work with (Again, not really an issue in the smaller sizes) there really are no problems using a wire that is larger than recommended.

CHART: Wiring Size Guide

To calculate the amperage your lights will draw you use this simple formula: Watts divided by voltage. I believe most headlights are 55w on high beam. 55 divided by 12 = 4.58 amps. Your running 2 lights so 4.58x2=9.16 Round that UP to 10 amps for the circuit.

On the chart 10 amps up to 11 feet total you use 14 gauge wire. You wanna be extra safe/sure and insure your going to get absolutely the most out of your lights you possibly can? move up to the next larger size (12 gauge) no need to go any larger than that but if you have some 10 gauge in your shed that is not doing anything and no 14, there is no problem using it.


That is determined by the maximum safe capacity of the wire you have used which of course was determined by your math of the load. Your usually safe adding 15% to the load number to determine your fuse size. You don't want the fuse the same size as your calculated load because it will likely not last long and you'll be replacing them all the time. (Think of rope; working load and breaking load, you need your wires to work, but when it breaks you have a fuse). Your safe going SLIGHTLY larger. So, your 10 amp load on 14 gauge wire (or larger) would enjoy being protected by a 11.5 amp fuse. Good luck finding that. Use a 15 amp and your good to go for 100 years or a short/overload of some kind.




Suggestions.... Hum...

I do see some advantages of changing to the 12v system. Obviously they do work and work well but even more importantly, you can get them literally anyplace. I have even seen them at the local 7-11. I can not recall seeing a 24v headlamp at the local Auto Boys, Pep Zone or -Mart store.

As for the wiring harness; I have taken several "older" cars/trucks (Civilian 12v) that had functional headlights and made a new harness for the headlights. First how, then why.

How: Just like you I did/do not want to cut up the factory wiring so I used the factory light socket for one of the lights to act as the trigger for my relays, 2 of them, just like you thought about using. I run a 10 gauge wire directly to the "+" battery terminal to a 15 amp fuse within 10" of the battery. (You can get very nice in line covered "Water RESISTANT" fuse holders for about $5 at most auto supply stores). I use the 10 gauge wire to feed both relays and from there both the high and low beams on both sides and I run a ground directly back to the battery, (No fuse). Mount both the relays to the fender/firewall/grill. As you noted, use the factory socket for the trigger for the relays. Be sure to put your wires in split loom for a professional look and to protect the wires from any damage and of course, be careful in your routing to avoid any moving or hot parts.

An added bonus bit of info: They make a socket for the relays your using but the sockets are usually difficult to find or are special order. Some NAPA stores keep them in stock. I HIGHLY recommend using sockets. It makes replacing a bad relay 100% easier, gives a cleaner looking install and it is safer since the socket will insulate the individual relay terminals from each other, the fender and anything that may hit/drop or otherwise contact the terminals. If you have trouble finding the sockets you can use normal (old style 3 blade) headlight sockets! They will fit on 3 of your terminals and you only have 1 remaining wire that will use a normal "Spade lug crimp terminal". Not quite as clean looking as the correct socket but still very usable and since it will only go on 1 way, it will eliminate any confusion as to which wire goes to which terminal if you have to replace the relay later.

WHY: frequently on older vehicles the wiring and connectors are ... old. Often times it is also undersized, especially if you upgrade to new brighter lights. By using the stock wiring to control the relays and going directly to the battery for both power and ground AND using what is actually an over sized wire (the 10 gauge I use) your guaranteeing that your going to get 100% of whatever your headlights have to offer.

After doing this modification I have seen marked improvement in the amount of light provided by the same lights. Change the lights to a modern reflector and lens design and halogen filament and your all but guaranteed to get more light.

One last thing. Those relays are not sealed so if you mount them in an area that is going to get wet, the insides will get wet. Be sure to mount them as close to vertical as you can to allow any water to drain out. Don't forget about steam.. You mount the relay under the hood and drive into water, your going to get some steam under the hood. This can get into the relay. Make sure that once the steam inside the relay cools and turns back into water it can drain/run out.

These relays are inexpensive. Once you start using them you'll find more and more uses for them. Buy an extra and keep it in your box. Sooner or later you will need it.

I hope this helps some. Let us know what you decide to do in the end.
Much thanks for the ton of info provided. I have lots to think about with all the different replies in this thread. I also like hearing that my idea would work. And so would the 10 gauge wire I secretly wanted to use since I have a lot of it.

I have one of those relays under the hood now turning the 12 volt system on and off. I used spade conectors on it and painted the whole thing with "liquid tape". No problems so far but I haven't driven much. I will keep an eye out on it and any others if I go through with it as originally planned.

Thanks to all who have contributed. I picked up a ton of info that I will put to good use.
 

DUG

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there is a guy in the classifieds selling 24v led headlights, not to give anything away but they are trucklite and I paid $100 for a pair shipped. Very worth it in my opinion.
Couldn't find. If I could get trucklite LEDs for 100 bucks I sure would.
 

oldMan99

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Much thanks for the ton of info provided. I have lots to think about with all the different replies in this thread. I also like hearing that my idea would work. And so would the 10 gauge wire I secretly wanted to use since I have a lot of it.
LOL... yeah, that 10ga will be "extra good".... :) (Especially since it is already in stock/paid for!) Slightly overkill but hey, isn't the whole MV thing?? :)


I have one of those relays under the hood now turning the 12 volt system on and off. I used spade conectors on it and painted the whole thing with "liquid tape". No problems so far but I haven't driven much. I will keep an eye out on it and any others if I go through with it as originally planned.
That is actually a pretty good idea. Somewhat of a pain to paint it all on unless you just made a big "blob" that covers everything on the bottom. Going to be a pain if you have to replace the relay but having done that, you may never have to replace it and your contacts should never corrode unless there is some kind of bad interaction between the wire and the coating which I would not really expect. That will also help secure the connection between the wire and the crimp terminal from corrosion and vibration.

You know, after typing the above I sat and thought about it some. I have not done the plastic tape thing on these relays and have installed a lot of them both inside the cab and under the hood. I think this might be worthwhile in under hood application for a MV or serious off road vehicle. I put a bit more though into it and have an idea you might like.

Get a medicine bottle just slightly larger than the relay. The liquid tape I am familiar with will pour out of the can, is that what you have? Assemble the relay/wires, function test the system, be sure all is good to go. Spray "Pam" or some other no-stick cooking spray in the medicine bottle. Stick the relay/wires in the bottle pour in enough liquid tape to cover the relay and terminals plus just a bit more. Let it sit overnight so that at least the open end dries. Secure the bottle in a safe place and leave it on for a few days to let the capsule fully cure. After that the bottle "Should" slide off leaving a nicely protected and fully sealed up relay and wire harness.

You could if you wanted then cut the "top" off of the capsule to expose the relay mounting tab since the top of the relay is completely sealed. Or just leave it as is and use wire ties to hold it securely out of the way.

Heat might be an issue if you were going to be using that relay at close to capacity but your no where even sort of close to that so heat should never be an issue.

These relays really are pretty hearty under most conditions and this is of course way over kill. Sealing up the crimp connectors is likely going to give you more benefit than sealing the relay.

On the other hand, using the socket and mounting upright has worked hundreds of times for me in some pretty serious river/lake fording 4x4's....

Just a though...

one last thing... when you use crimp terminals getting a quality tool that makes the proper crimp is way better than the cheap tools that mangle the crimp area. The tool should not break or pierce the colored insulating band and it should crimp from both sides. Also good to use are the "Sealing" type crimp connectors or the solder type crimp connectors. There are crimp terminals that have heat shrink inside. Once you crimp the wires, hit it with a heat gun and it seals the connection and improved vibration resistance. They also make some with a low temp solder that works with a heat gun. And there are some that have a silicone like goo inside that will activate after crimping to seal the connection.

Cheap terminals are just that, cheap. Get quality terminals and the job will last much longer without problems. NAPA has a good selection of quality terminals and you can get good ones at electrical supply places, Graingers and so forth.

Thanks to all who have contributed. I picked up a ton of info that I will put to good use.
Just be sure to let us know what you end up doing and how you like it!
 

DUG

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The plastic tape I used was in a spray can. Went on like paint. I used three coats after letting each coat dry for an hour or so. When I was done it sure looked like it was all "taped" up.

I have all month to figure out what I'm going to do. Each month I get a "budget" (there's a dirty word) to do all I want with my many toys/hobbies. Once the "budget" (man, I hate even typing the word) is gone, Iam pretty much am done spending money until the next month.

Seems strange for a grown man with a good job, but it keeps my bills paid on time, keeps us from using credit cards and puts money in savings. All crazy ideas I know.

January's "budget" went by the 1st. which I'm proud to say is a new record. I bought some truck stuff, REI had a sale on some hiking gear I wanted and Sunglass Hut had some killer Ray Bans - two for one! Oh and the RC helos are fun too.

So anyway, I'll sit here planning/dreaming until next month.

The wife gets the same amount, however she rarely spends it. Well she did last year - she bought a car - cash. But we have different interests I guess.

In the summer I can't hardly spend a dime on the truck because every cent I get goes for food/fuel to go on these crazy backpacking trips in the sierras. Climbing peaks and looking for long crashed planes. Google the wreck of the "Gambler's Special" I'm one of the very few people to find it and actually survive the hike there.

Oh yeah - headlights. Thanks again!!
 

oldMan99

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Seems strange for a grown man with a good job, but it keeps my bills paid on time, keeps us from using credit cards and puts money in savings. All crazy ideas I know.
Crazy? No, actually that is probably the most sensible thing ever posted on this or any other internet board. Good on you![thumbzup]





Only 25 days to go till headlights! :-o
 

DUG

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Dug, you need to run for Governor in the next election.[thumbzup]
I'm still legally a resident of Iowa. I own a CA home but I can't vote here. I love to vote yes to raise Iowa property taxes whenever it's on the ballet cuz it drives Rat4Spd crazy. I usually put him on the ballet as a write in.

The plus side is I register my stuff where it's cheaper and easier. CA sends a bill for over 600 to register my pick up, I pay 80 or so of it with my out of state military paperwork.

CA didn't have the personalized plates I wanted for the Chevelle so I got them from IA.

Get to have that cake and eat it. Legally.
 

Mongoose1

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Seems strange for a grown man with a good job, but it keeps my bills paid on time, keeps us from using credit cards and puts money in savings. All crazy ideas I know.
Dude, you are my hero! If more people would do this, the economy would sort itself out in no time.
 

patracy

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Ain't nothing wrong with living below your means!

I lived above mine for a while and learned how dumb it is. Haven't had a credit card in a few years now. Once our old house is sold, we'll be payment free except for my Jeep and I'll bust that out in a hurry.
 

srodocker

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no they are 12v bulbs that come with it so you order some 24v bulbs. and you order a new harness for 4$ but i was told you can use the stock harness that comes with it.
 

DUG

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So you order from them? If I went that way I would want a few spare bulbs too.
 

oldMan99

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I was watching one of those Saturday afternoon TV shows about "cars/trucks/4x4/whatever with a motor" shows and they had a tech segment about stuff to do to make your ride better. It went something very much like this:

(Host to camera): Have you installed new, brighter, higher power headlights and your dash switch went out? Do you drive an older vehicle with dim headlights? Well, have we got the answer for you! Simply use this kit to tap into your battery to get power directly from the battery to the lights and avoid all the old truck wiring. Blah, blah, blah....

Gee, I could swear I had just said the same thing back on page 2 of this thread....lol..

Truck Parts and Truck Accessories for Chevy, GMC, Ford and Dodge Trucks from LMCTruck.com Item # 47-3660 $29.95


They have several different ones for specific models of trucks but funny enough none for the Deuce. However, the one I gave the number for will work for the Deuce just fine if you have a dedicated 12v system to switch the relays. This system may well work on 24V but since I could not get a detailed enough pic to be able to research the relays they are using I can not say for sure. This particular one is set up to work with the older 3 blade type head lights. If that is what you have the only mod you would need to make to the harness is adapt the plug to work with your stock Deuce light plug for the switching control.

Probably more fun and owner pride in just making the entire harness yourself, but I thought I wold throw this out there since we were just talking about it and then a couple days later I see it on TV...

One big advantage of the "Direct to battery" system that I forgot to mention back on page 2 is that most street vehicles built within the last 20-30+ years feed the headlights from the dash switch. This means all the load of your headlights starts in the battery, goes through a lot of harness, the under dash fuse block, more harness, the dash switch (that usually has small contacts inside) and then more harness, through the firewall, through even more harness, to the individual lights.

It is not uncommon for that entire circuit to have 5-10 plugs/connections from battery to light. Each and every plug/connection is another chance for corrosion/looseness/mechanical damage - in short, voltage drop. Ideally you want as few connections between the souse and the load as you can possibly have, no matter what the load is. A harness such as this eliminates a good majority of them.

It also gets the load off the light switch so it will last longer.

Your mileage may vary... (But in this case, probably not by much!)
 

NEIOWA

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Anyone have info on the following headlights? Disc as for MRAP likely should make this a 7" LED unit but the 24v only version or 12/24V version?

HEADLIGHT 6220015726762
MRAP - UNIQUE NSN - MRAP NO PERMANENT WSDC IDENTIFIED:roll:
HEADLIGHT,DRIVER
MRAP - UNIQUE NSN - MRAP NO PERMANENT WSDC IDENTIFIEDPART NAME ASSIGNED BY CONTROLLING AGENCY:HEADLIGHT,DRIVER
 
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