HELP!! installing the rebuilt IP - MEP-002A Refurb Update

[joesco]

The new (rebuilt) pump is installed. Began the tedious task of priming and purging air all to find out that I have a hair-line crack in my left Fuel Injector fuel line. So waiting for a take-off fuel line to arrive. Boy, it is sure slow going!

 

[Speddmon]

Joe,

Any luck on getting that fuel injector line yet?? After all the PM's we've traded and phone calls, I wanna see a report that this sucker runs....LOL

 

[oshpunit987]

Joe

There is a guy in Baytown, Tx that has several MEP002and3's for parts. He sells parts and rebuilds pumps and knows about every thing about these machines. I needed a new pump for my 002 and when I calculated the button thickness with the port closing numbers I needed about a 17 button and they only go up to 16. I also needed a fuel filter and contacted this feller in Texas and he sent it and I asked him about the timing button and he said the same thing KIPMAN said that the button stays with the machine. Mine had a 12 or 13 button and that is what I should use with the new pump. He said when it starts up with the wrong button you will definetely know it. I haven't got the pump on yet. When I found out they don't make a 17 button I bought a rebuilt engine off GL for about the price of a rebuilt pump. I don't know for sure which is right but you can call the Texan. He is willing to give you any info you need about these machine and happy to help.
This is a thread about him.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/auxillary-equipment/62240-here-source-used-mep002-003-parts.html

 

[Speddmon]

I, for one am very interested in how your machine is going to run using your old button over again. Even AMBAC, the manufacturer of the pump, tells you to recalculate the button thickness if you install a new IP.

Here is a link to a document from AMBAC...Selecting the Correct Injection Pump Timing Button. Look at the second page near the bottom...a paragraph in RED marked as IMPORTANT..."Plunger buttons are not included with model 50 pumps or hydraulic heads. The required plunger button must be selected when a new pump, or an old pump with a new head is installed on an engine".

This guy in Texas may have a lot of parts for sale and be able to rebuild and test the pumps, but if he's telling people to re-use their old buttons, he's passing out incorrect information. That's the reason that AMBAC stamps the port closing dimentions on the side of the pumps. The only way you could use your old button over is if he rebuilt a pump for you and put your old hyraulic head in the rebuilt pump.

Also, if your calculations came up with needing a size 17 button, I would think you should go back and recheck your calculations, probably a simple math error.

 

[joesco]

Tom,
Been laid up the last few weeks, but over the last few days have made some progress.

<> Had a local shop tig weld the steel fuel injector line crack. I did not want to spend $40.00 on a new one!
<> Installed it and after about 1/2 dozen starting attempts, he came to life for the first time, albeit for a few seconds.
<> Found another pin hole leak in the short braided fuel line between the union and the side of the fuel pump.
<> Yesterday had a new hose assembly made up ($24) at a local shop and hope to install that and give it another try later this week.

When it ran for those few short seconds, it was running rough and blowing lots of white smoke!

Hope the end is coming soon on this refurb!!!!

I, for one am very interested in how your machine is going to run using your old button over again. Even AMBAC, the manufacturer of the pump, tells you to recalculate the button thickness if you install a new IP.

Here is a link to a document from AMBAC...Selecting the Correct Injection Pump Timing Button. Look at the second page near the bottom...a paragraph in RED marked as IMPORTANT..."Plunger buttons are not included with model 50 pumps or hydraulic heads. The required plunger button must be selected when a new pump, or an old pump with a new head is installed on an engine".

This guy in Texas may have a lot of parts for sale and be able to rebuild and test the pumps, but if he's telling people to re-use their old buttons, he's passing out incorrect information. That's the reason that AMBAC stamps the port closing dimentions on the side of the pumps. The only way you could use your old button over is if he rebuilt a pump for you and put your old hyraulic head in the rebuilt pump.

Also, if your calculations came up with needing a size 17 button, I would think you should go back and recheck your calculations, probably a simple math error.

Joe,

Any luck on getting that fuel injector line yet?? After all the PM's we've traded and phone calls, I wanna see a report that this sucker runs....LOL

 

[Speddmon]

Good to hear. Yes it does sound like the end is coming near. If I were you though, I would consider getting that line replaced sooner or later. If it was cracked, then there is some serious stress in the steel. The heat from the weld isn't going to help any with that. Maybe you and oshpunit987 should get together...he did mention he got a replacement/rebuilt engine...maybe he'd be willing to sell you the injector lines????

Running rough and white smoke at first for an 002a isn't necessarily a bad thing. The smoke could be just cool cylinders. Hopefully that clears up after you get it running good and for more than a few seconds. Plus it is only a 2 cylinder, so it's gonna be a little rougher than a 4 cylinder.

 

[PeterD]

T...

When it ran for those few short seconds, it was running rough and blowing lots of white smoke!...

I'd take a WAG and say this is most likely because it was cold, and would not worry about it just yet. Hopefully, you'll get your leaks fixed and be able to start it up and all will be good.

 

[oshpunit987]

Tom

I have read about the correct timing button many times and my new pump even had how to calculate it too. I didn't make a mistake in calculation. It's a simple calculation and I checked it more than once and my size came up bigger than any button they make. I was just saying the Texan may know more than we do since he works with the things all the time and it wouldn't hurt to talk to the guy. I'm sure he would have injector lines cheaper than $40. I have to get new lines for mine too as they are rusty inside. I remember he said he can make injector lines for these machines too but I don't remember the cost.

 

[Speddmon]

The calculations could very well be correct, and probably are. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that your old pump had a much larger port closing dimension than the new pump does. That's going to be about the only way you could end up needing a larger button than they actually make. Once it was determined you needed a button that was not made, it would have been advisable to try to exchange the new pump for another one with a port closing dimension closer to the one you had originally (due to incompatability issues)...then the button size would fall within the range of available buttons.

As far as the guy in Texas goes, he may very well be a super nice guy and good to deal with, but you are not the first perosn who has mentioned he has told you to re-use your old button and that is not the correct information. And in another thread he told a member not to pull his injectors for fear of breaking the cooling fins. He told the guy if he broke the fins he would need to replace the injector. I remember you being into diesels , so you know your way around an engine. Those fins have absolutely no affect on the proper operation of the injector what-so-ever. All they do is to provide a little cooling for the injector since it's an air cooled engine. The fins being totally gone still wouldn't cause enough heat to really do a lot of damage to the injector. All of this tells me that this guy is either purposely giving out bad information in order to get a sale, or he really doesn't know the truth. And it's for these reasons I have formed my opinions. If anybody else wants to deal with him, feel free, I for one probably will not.

 

[oshpunit987]

Kipman said the same thing, do you know if he has talked to the Texan also? I think the ole boy is like you Tom, he would do any thing to help some one but that is just my opinion since I have talked to both of you. One of these days I'm going to try the old button in the new pump.

 

[rickf]

I would put the old button in but before you run it do the calculation by flow to see if in fact it is in the right place. If you start it and the timing is retarded you will just get smoke but if it is too far advance you might be buying head gaskets!

Rick

 

[oshpunit987]

OK. Thanks for the tip Rick.

 

[Speddmon]

I would put the old button in but before you run it do the calculation by flow to see if in fact it is in the right place. If you start it and the timing is retarded you will just get smoke but if it is too far advance you might be buying head gaskets!

Rick

Good tip Rick,

That was going to be my next suggestion. IF you insist on using the old button, flow time it first and see how far it is out. The few thousandths of an inch can make a world of difference. As Rick stated, at best you'll get smoke and no power...worst case scenerio, new head gaskets or even another new pump.

P.S. Allen, could you copy the post from Kipman about re-using the old button. To the best of my knowledge, he has never talked to the guy in Texas. I also can't remember him saying anything about the button (not to say he didn't). He was on the phone with me several times while he was working on his brothers IP issues.

 

[oshpunit987]

Tom

KIPMAN did the #2 post of this thread. It was just one line. This is it:
"From what I know, you have to use the button that came with the generator, close will not cut it."
That's the same thing the Texan said. You would think the book would be right, but I have seen thing wrong in books. I don't know which is the right way but plan on finding out some day.

 

[joesco]

Well, had to buy another flex fuel line today, installed it and now all the leaks are repaired. Bled all the air out of the lines and fired him up. Throttle control all the way out and he ran for about 4 or 5 seconds and died. Tried several more times and the same thing, lots of white smoke, ran for about 5 seconds and died. On the last try before the batteries went dead, I notice a puff of black smoke before it died.

The solenoid seems to be operating and I know fuel is getting to both injectors. My intake plugs are hot, but I noticed that the block where my glow plugs enter are is not even warm.

Would this indicated a glow plug malfunction? The gp's are brand new! Could it be my injectors? I AM LOST!!!!

Any other suggestions guys?

 

[Speddmon]

When you say it dies. Does it die shortly after you let go of the start switch? Or does it seem to die while you are still holding the start switch?

Keep in mind that these sets have a low oil pressure shut-down switch. Once if seems to be running, you need to hold the switch in "start" until it builds oil pressure (up to about 10 to 12 seconds MAX!!!), and maybe for a couple of tries if the temps are really cold.

I would try to jump out the high temp switch and the oil pressure switch both to see if it stays running. If you do this though, keep a close eye on the oil pressure to make sure you have pressure.

The fact that you are getting lots of white smoke indicates that you are getting fuel to the cylinders, since white smoke is usually raw unburned diesel in the exhaust. We need to know more information about when and how it dies now to determine what steps to make next.

 

[joesco]

Tom,
Yes, it dies shortly after I let go of the start switch. I have tried to hold start switch (probably for me than I should) and it will stay running until I let it go. I noticed today that, for the first time I had an oil pressure reading when it was running for those few seconds which is somewhat promising. But once I give it a break and try it again in 30 or so seconds, the same thing happens.

I actually was thinking of a faulty low oil shut down switch, but jumping the oil pressure switch "may" be above my pay grade???? In any case, I have to trickle charge the batteries tonight for millionth time!

When you say it dies. Does it die shortly after you let go of the start switch? Or does it seem to die while you are still holding the start switch?

Keep in mind that these sets have a low oil pressure shut-down switch. Once if seems to be running, you need to hold the switch in "start" until it builds oil pressure (up to about 10 to 12 seconds MAX!!!), and maybe for a couple of tries if the temps are really cold.

I would try to jump out the high temp switch and the oil pressure switch both to see if it stays running. If you do this though, keep a close eye on the oil pressure to make sure you have pressure.

The fact that you are getting lots of white smoke indicates that you are getting fuel to the cylinders, since white smoke is usually raw unburned diesel in the exhaust. We need to know more information about when and how it dies now to determine what steps to make next.

 

[Speddmon]

Joe,

Jumping out the oil pressure switch is easy. In the picture I have attached, I have the switch circled. Just unscrew the wires from the switch and put them both under the same screw. That effectively by-passes the switch. Just remember to re-attach them where they go when you are done troubleshooting. Also, remember to keep a close eye on the oil pressure.

 

[joesco]

Great Tom, really appreciated the pic and advice AGAIN! Will give it a try tomorrow or Tue. Thanks again!

 

[joesco]

Jumped the oil pressure switch this morning, observed the same exact symptom. He ran for about 5 or 10 seconds, oil pressure approached 20psi and he died. Attempted several times again holding the start switch for about ten seconds and while holding he would just stop running, ending with a puff of black smoke. My manifold was hot to the touch, fuel is returning to the tank and I also attempted to pull the injectors but the nuts on the small fuel lines to each of the two injectors are rusted solid and cannot be removed. Holy C R A P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!