PTO Input Shaft Bearings -- Source?

[davey8943]

SS,

In my quest to go from a w/o w to a w/w; I have been working on my WN-7-28 for a couple weeks now (on and off). I have been slowly tearing down and buying new parts as the need arises. Many of the parts I have decided to replace. I have a feeling that this PTO was "left to the elements" for far too long (corrosion, reasonable wear, etc)

I have been able to find all of the bearings and seals at the local Motion Industries (for a decent price).

BUT!!!!!

The last shaft I removed was the input shaft (the one that mates to the transmission gearing). The needle bearings are in pretty bad shape. I ran them down to Motion, and they claim that cannot get them in the 1.2" length (the bearings are 3/4" shaft, 1 1/2" bore, and 1.2" length). They can get them in 1 1/4 " but the gear shaft length is too short to allow that extra 0.1" ...

So.....

Does anyone have a source for these bearings? I called my closest Spicer part dealer, and he wasn't much help.

I posted a couple of pictures of the bearings. I don't really "like" the shape they are in. If the consensus is to use them, and I can't find a reasonable source for new bearings, I will put these back in.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[ODdave]

how do the area(s) the contact look?

also, try applied indutrial

 

[73m819]

check DANA/SPICER, that is who makes the pto, almost any big truck shop should be able to help you.

 

[davey8943]

ODdave,

Good point, I hadn't even thought about posting those pictures.

I don't think the shaft is in GOOD shape, but I had planned on putting it back in. Same with the gears.

Pictures below:

Thanks,
Dave

 

[motomacguyver]

Well, the way I would look at it is as follows. You have 2 surfaces that are imperfect, (shaft, bore) and you are asking it to mate with another surface that is also imperfect (bearing). At some point in time the two-three imperfect surfaces are going to meet. The question is, is there enough surface area to spread the load? AND how many times are the two-three imperfect surfaces going to meet?

I would say that the bearing surfaces look like they would "meet" the other surfaces many more times, than vice-versa... So the bearing is the most important of these surfaces. If the bearing was made once it is probably still made somewhere.

If not, Well it would probably give you several more years of service before repair.

If you had to "do it right" the shaft could be GROUND, not machined, to the next size smaller respectively, and needle bearings sourced BEFORE the machining is done. I would leave the BORE alone.

After looking at your pics, with the scale for reference. It looks like you have a 1.25 long needle bearing. If you can have it measured with a machinist's calipers, that would be definitive. Also not to nitpick, but according to your post your only .050 off on your measurements. Not .100.

 

[davey8943]

Motomacgyver,

Excellent points. I completely agree with the assessment that to be done "right" it should be changed. But it would likely give more service till failure.

Thanks for the idea to grind the shaft. A second thought on that, the housing would have to be sleeved in order to hold press fit on the now slightly smaller shaft (another expensive trip to the machine shop.)

I must have forgot to mention that there are two of these bearings on the shaft, hence the 0.100 instead of the 0.050. Thanks for catching my omission!

I added a picture of the bearing in a set of calipers for reference...

73m819,

I will give my local big rig repair shop a visit tomorrow. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[m16ty]

I've seen posted where to get these bearings before but I can't find it. Gringeltaube knows and I'm almost sure he's the one that posted the info on them. Best I remember he had the Timkin numbers and everything. You might want to try sending him a PM.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

Try George at White Owl Truck Parts

 

[gringeltaube]

.........he had the Timkin numbers and everything...

sorry Ty, not for these bearings. They are considered obsolete and so far I have not been able to find replacement parts, besides having a few custom made, locally. Not a cheap solution, though.

Dave: I've seen parts looking worse than yours and still working alright.
If the PTO only has to work at sporadic winching actions I would leave those parts as is and keep you eyes open for a good take-out unit.

Otherwise there is a way to permanently solve this problem & upgrade this old design. It involves very little machining of the housing and also of the stock input gear. I would recommend doing this especially in cases where the PTO is used to run a pump almost continuosly...: the input gear is modded to fit the races for tapered roller bearings and the stock shaft is replaced with a new shaft plus spacer, to firmly support the bearing cones. The thrustwashers are not longer needed.

Some pics attached and drawing/dimensions/specs available....



G.

 

[docfarmall]

Davey give me a call later i have a bearing supplier . He should be able to help with it.

 

[greg2560]

is there pits in rollers? is cage in bad shape ? they do not look that bad. If they run smooth i would put them back in and run with it. It is not like that pto is running all the time

 

[m16ty]

sorry Ty, not for these bearings. They are considered obsolete and so far I have not been able to find replacement parts, besides having a few custom made, locally. Not a cheap solution, though.


G.

Maybe that's why I couldn't find the thread.

I figured that you would know if anybody would though.

 

[ODdave]

is there pits in rollers? is cage in bad shape ? they do not look that bad. If they run smooth i would put them back in and run with it. It is not like that pto is running all the time

not all the time, only when the clutch is engaged with the engine running, If that counter shaft is tuning, that pto gear is as well. Its at no load but it is turning. If the pto where to come apart, no big deal just repace it. Its when the pices get into the trans that cause trouble.........

 

[davey8943]

...

Otherwise there is a way to permanently solve this problem & upgrade this old design. ...
G.

G,

I like it a lot!

If money were no object I would definitely be asking for some drawings / details to pass to my machine shop....

Problem is... money IS an object!

Docfarmall is going to try one last spot for me. If he comes up blank I think I will keep an eye out for a "better" take out.

ODdave,

That is the EXACT reason I was taking this apart to clean it up. Now at least I know what I have and can make a (hopefully) smart decision!


Thanks All!!
Dave

 

[m16ty]

As cheap as PTOs are, I'd just pick up another one and save that one for parts. Saturn has them for $250 on their website. You'll quickly go past that amount with custom bearings and/or machining.

 

[davey8943]

I just realized that I committed the worst offense possible on SS (and no its not searching before I post!)

I never came back and posted my solution!

I was never able to find the correct replacement needle bearings. I ended up buying a takeout PTO from a local parts guy. He made me a pretty good deal, and all I had to do was "slap it on"....

I worked it a few times at Haspin '11, and hope to prove beyond there!

Thanks for all the help from the posters above!

Dave

 

[JCKnife]

Dave does he have any more? (I haven't taken my PTO apart yet but judging by the condition of the outside and of the winch, I expect it to be pretty rough).

 

[davey8943]

Joe,

He had a handful when I picked mine up a earlier this year. My bet is that they are all gone.

It would be worth a call to Clinton ( M35A2 parts, M809 series 5 ton parts items in C and C Equipment store on eBay! ) you may be in luck...

Good luck,
Dave

 

[JCKnife]

Thanks. I'll tear into mine first and see how bad it is. Maybe it's all cosmetic (I can hope, right?).