Broke a winch bolt :(

[DUG]

Got the broken bolt out today. Bought a fresh set of Cobalt bits at Sears and a #3 and #4 Easy Out. Fresh bits cut through the bolt like it was plastic. Smaller Easy Out grabbed it and turned it right out, no problems. Threads in the casing looked good, the bolt might have had a flaw. I put a temp bolt in until I can find the correct one (again).

Anyone have one long (drivers side) shouldered winch bolt? I won't be holding my breath.

 

[rizzo]

Got the broken bolt out today. Bought a fresh set of Cobalt bits at Sears and a #3 and #4 Easy Out. Fresh bits cut through the bolt like it was plastic. Smaller Easy Out grabbed it and turned it right out, no problems. Threads in the casing looked good, the bolt might have had a flaw. I put a temp bolt in until I can find the correct one (again).

Anyone have one long (drivers side) shouldered winch bolt? I won't be holding my breath.

IIRC I used grade 8 bolts from the TSC.

 

[rizzo]

what is so special about the bolts? we are talking about the winch mounting bolts right

 

[DUG]

what is so special about the bolts? we are talking about the winch mounting bolts right

As discussed in the thread where I was complaining I couldn't find them, they have a machined shoulder. They fit the casing perfectly so there is no movement at all. I'm sure regular grade 8 bolts would be fine, but I wanted to use the correct part since some smart guy somewhere back in the day designed it like that.

People use a bolt for a shear pin too and get away with it, but it isn't what's designed to go in there.

(DH- I trust I have left enough material here for you to make a snarky comment. If not, I'll keep working on my set up)

 

[doghead]

OK, Carry on, Dug.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I had suspected that it would come right out. Steel bolts just don't break in aluminum unless there is a flaw with the bolt.

 

[DUG]

OK, Carry on, Dug.

As requested:

{Refrain
Carry on my wayward son
There'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry no more

Once I rose above the noise and confusion
Just to get a glimpse beyond this illusion
I was soaring ever higher
But I flew too high

Though my eyes could see I still was a blind man
Though my mind could think I still was a mad man
I hear the voices when I'm dreaming
I can hear them say

{Refrain

Masquerading as a man with a reason
My charade is the event of the season
And if I claim to be a wise man, well
It surely means that I don't know

On a stormy sea of moving emotion
Tossed about I'm like a ship on the ocean
I set a course for winds of fortune
But I hear the voices say

{Refrain
No!

Carry on, you will always remember
Carry on, nothing equals the splendor
The center lights around your vanity
But surely heaven waits for you

Carry on my wayward son
There'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry (don't you cry no more)

 

[DUG]

I had suspected that it would come right out. Steel bolts just don't break in aluminum unless there is a flaw with the bolt.

I'm glad you were correct. Now I need to find ONE long shouldered bolt.

Without buying a whole set of course.

 

[frodobaggins]

Dude - Picture in your funny little head a broken bolt. Now picture me with a POed look on my face.

While you're at it, picture Frodo stuck in China and DH's dog cruising to PetCo on the Mule.

Wake me up when you can picture the correct lotto numbers.

Best thing I've read all day !

 

[doghead]

Best thing I've read all day !

Frodo, if you just need a laugh, to brighten your day, just go outside and look at your truck that has been stuck in your lawn for a few weeks now! It makes me laugh, every time I think about it!

Maybe you could host a La rally at your place. Everyone could practice winch ops on your truck....


fwiw, I do get my recommended daily allowance of humor, from this site.(good for the soul)

 

[LongueCarabine]

I am having a similar problem today, I took my winch off to change out the seals. Once I got the winch off the truck, started taking the bolts off the straps that hold it together. Lo and behold, both bolts on the PTO (drivers) side sheared off right at the top. These are the top strap bolts.

I drilled a hole in each and tried a Kobalt easy-out on them, but the bolts are S-T-U-K...stuck. Don't want to budge and I really don't want to break the easy-out inside one of them.

Is it possible to heat up the aluminum body to help?

Anyone have any suggestions?

TIA,

LC

 

[LongueCarabine]

I had suspected that it would come right out. Steel bolts just don't break in aluminum unless there is a flaw with the bolt.

That's what I don't understand in my case right now. The doggone bolts seem to be rusted in, and won't budge. Is it possible for a steel bolt to rust to an aluminum block? It's got me really stumped.

LC

 

[motomacguyver]

That's what I don't understand in my case right now. The doggone bolts seem to be rusted in, and won't budge. Is it possible for a steel bolt to rust to an aluminum block? It's got me really stumped.

LC

Galvanic corrosion will cause this; dissimilar metals have different electrical potentials and will cause corrosion at the atomic level. That's why boats/boat motors have zinc pucks attached to them. The zinc will corrode before the other metals will. Also, Steel will still rust if it gets wet, even if it's surrounded by aluminum.

The best way to remove a broken bolt, tap,ez-out, etc is with an EDM machine. Electrical Discharge Machining. It is Expensive, and you have to take it into the machine shop and perhaps take it apart to get it to fit in the EDM machine. However the chances of drilling the hole off center and ruining the whole works are greatly reduced. Once it’s at the machine shop and ready to go into the machine it shouldn’t take more than 20 minutes or so to make it disappear.

 

[DUG]

Get out the torch and heat it. MAPP gas if you don't have a full torch set. It'll come out.

 

[m16ty]

The best way to remove a broken bolt, tap,ez-out, etc is with an EDM machine. Electrical Discharge Machining.

While this would work to remove a broken bolt, I don't think with the shape of the end case and the bolt location you'd ever be able to get it into a EDM. I don't think you'd have a clear way to run the wire.


Heat will help but be careful. It's hard to tell when you've heated AL too much until it's puddled up on the floor.

 

[LongueCarabine]

Get out the torch and heat it. MAPP gas if you don't have a full torch set. It'll come out.

Looks like all I have is propane. Not sure if my torch head will work with MAPP. I guess propane won't heat it enough?

LC

 

[DUG]

Get a cheapie home owner set up from Home Depot. Then grab a bottle of MAPP gas from the plumbing section. As others warned, be careful not to get too hot. try 15 seconds or so to start. It'll come out.

Then call George at White Owl to get another bolt.

 

[LongueCarabine]

Get a cheapie home owner set up from Home Depot. Then grab a bottle of MAPP gas from the plumbing section. As others warned, be careful not to get too hot. try 15 seconds or so to start. It'll come out.

Then call George at White Owl to get another bolt.

Heated the bolts up pretty good this morning using MAPP and oxygen, probably warmed them up 30-45 seconds at one point, after 15 seconds didn't work.

Still not budging at all, and I am not a weakling. Using a large wrench to turn the easy-out and nothing happens.

I may just forfeit and bring it to a machine shop with a drill press. I really don't want to bugger up the holes. The holes I drilled into the bolts are slightly off center.

LC

 

[LongueCarabine]

Update, y'all. Took the winch to my local machine shop, since I just couldn't get the studs out. The manager told me they would try to heat it and use an Easy-Out. If that didn't work, they were going to try to weld some steel onto the broken studs and try that.

If all else fails, they are going to drill the bolts out. He did say that if they could not keep the bit centered so that the holes don't get buggered, then he can install a tapped insert that will be just as strong as the original tapped hole.

Estimated cost anywhere from $80 to $150.

I will know in the morning.

LC

 

[spicergear]

Just because being a Devil's Advocate is fun sometimes anyone bother to think of this:

Tensile strength of a 1/2" coarse thread Grade 8 bolt is 21,300 lbs. (24,000 for fine thread) There are six of them holding the 10,000 lb winch onto the 14,000 lb truck with the 1/2oz aluminum shear pin. Um, just because some engineer designed it doesn't mean it can never be looked at a different way. The shouldered bolt, in this case would never, ever, ...ever... make a safety or usable strength difference in this set up. Even the 20,000 lb Garwoods only have four mounting bolts and those are upped to 5/8" Grade 8.