Rebuilding a Multifuel

[JJensen]

As some of you may remember, I recently bought a M35A2. On the trip home it kicked a rod. I do not know the cause yet. May have been an oiling issue, could have been a rod bolt failure. I may have been over-revving it if the tach was not correct.

Now that I have been reading more about other member's trucks, I think that mine may have also had the pump turned up. It had really good power, but the pump cover still has the safety wire on it.

Anyway, I have been trying to decide what to do for a replacement engine. I was going to do a 12v Cummins, but I don't want to go through all of the conversion stuff. I know that it has been done, and I know that I could do it, but I don't want to.

So I have decided to buy a running engine locally, and then "go through it" or rebuild it.

This is where I would like to have some input from you guys. What things would you recommend or like to see done to one? I come from a high end racing background, and my engine builder is willing to do whatever I want.

If you have any recommendations I would like to hear them.

Here is what I have thought of so far:

All basic engine rebuilding/remanufacturing processes will be performed. Hot tanked, head and deck surfaces checked for square, measure crank journals, mains, etc...

Possibly replacing the sleeves/pistons or honing and replacing rings (if rings are available)

Balancing the rotating assembly

Replace the rod bolts with either new (are they available) or something from an aftermarket company. I can send one off to ARP to see what they have available. I know that I read in another thread that someone was going to do this. I would also re-size the rods as necessary.

Possibly replace the main and head bolts, but may not be necessary.

I am going to do a valve job, and possibly clean up/port the heads. I haven't even seen one off of the truck, but I'm sure they aren't very good. I was just going to do this to make it as efficient as possible.

My engine builder thinks that he can look over the oiling system and passages and see if he sees anything obvious that needs to be enlarged or restricted. We wouldn't want to do too much in this area, but he is very good and making decisions like this.

I will be using the newer style head gaskets.

Are NOS rod bolts available? What about rings?

I'm not going to spend thousands on rebuilding this, but I am going to try to improve it as best that I can. Honestly just balancing it, replacing the rod bolts, and having correct oil clearance may be enough to have a long lasting engine.

So, what else do you think that I should address doing this?

I hope to have a running take out engine this week. We are starting to bob the truck tomorrow.

 

[clinto]

All of that sounds like what I would do but I would add resizing the rods and definitely replace the cylinders and pistons-they are too cheap not to.

Also replace the injector pump lubrication hoses and all the fuel system hose.

Once you have done all that, add better filters and a pre-lube system (do a search-better filters and pre-lube systems have been covered in nauseating detail, so let's not derail this thread with those topics).

I suspect you will spend thousands, unless your buddy is going to do all that machining for free.

 

[mikew]

Properly rebuilding a motor, as you've described, would make for a great running truck but considering what it will cost and how inexpensive used multi-fuels are I'd just buy several used motors and run them until they blow up!

If you treat a "new" used motor right it should last for years. And if your first used one is a lemon you'd still be money ahead buying a few more used ones.

 

[wreckerman893]

I vote with mikew.....when I was parting out deuces I couldn't give the engines away....should be plenty of them around unless shipping is a killer.

There are two out back in a trailer that have been roosting there for years.

 

[dozer1]

Almost everyone else in the world would be far ahead by following mikews' advise but if you got a great engine builer like that, that will do all that for cheap or free? hmmm you would have one of the best multifuels around. Did I hear mention of IP rebuilding, calibration, injector work? Maybe look for an LDS to start with.

 

[WillWagner]

I agree, now adays time is big money. I'd just swap it for anpther take out.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I've been contemplating reducing my canned motor inventory by one. You folks are making me reconsider.

 

[oddshot]

So I have decided to buy a running engine locally, and then "go through it" or rebuild it.

1) All basic engine rebuilding/remanufacturing processes will be performed. Hot tanked, head and deck surfaces checked for square, measure crank journals, mains, etc...

2) Balancing the rotating assembly

3) Possibly replace the main and head bolts, but may not be necessary.

4) I am going to do a valve job, and possibly clean up/port the heads. I haven't even seen one off of the truck, but I'm sure they aren't very good. I was just going to do this to make it as efficient as possible.

5) My engine builder thinks that he can look over the oiling system and passages and see if he sees anything obvious that needs to be enlarged or restricted. We wouldn't want to do too much in this area, but he is very good and making decisions like this.

6) I will be using the newer style head gaskets.

From the basic blueprinting list you proposed ... the items numbered above are the ones I think will yield the most benefit .... if the benefit you are looking for is longevity.

Especially Balancing. I know you will want to have your machinist check the balance the pistons and rods. Maybe even polish the rods a bit to get rid of stress risers and reduce weight.

You COULD see some improvement in power and mileage ... but I don't think it would be much. Maybe just enough that you could install a muffler without losing anything.

But building an engine in such a manner that all of its internals aren't trying to pitch each other apart has to pay off big in terms of reliability and lifespan.

If I can paraphrase Stalin: "Reliability and lifespan has a power all its own."

If I had the money ... I think I would follow your outline.

oddshot

 

[jasonjc]

If every one keeps throwing them away there aint going to be any left.
Rebuilding so going to be the only way befor you know it.
It would be nice to know how this truns out and how much work it really is to do the rebuild.

 

[rnd-motorsports]

the older parts are getting few and far between to find! the scrap prices be up is making all the spares people use to keep, End up in the scrap! If you are able to rebuild I think it is the way to go besides being able to say I did that is priceless!!

 

[Sephirothq]

Even after all the cheap multifuels are gone you could always repower cheaper then a ground up rebuild.

What are the cost of the parts, gaskets, etc? Not mentioning the machine work and cost, and where would you get the parts?

 

[JJensen]

Well some of you guys have me thinking about just putting a used engine in it and hoping that it does well. I spent about 4 hours today bobbing the truck. I thought about the engine situation most of the time. If engines are cheap to come by, then I could swap a few before it would cost as much as a rebuild.

As far as the rebuild goes, all of the machine work would be free, except $200 for balancing. I haven't added up the cost of parts. I have the money to do whatever I want, but that isn't the point. I want to have a reliable engine for the least amount of money.

I've looked in the classifieds and rarely see engines for sale. Maybe I'm not using the classifieds correctly.

If I could find a block, crank, rod, maybe 1 piston, I could possibly use everything else that I have.

Can you buy new rings and just hone the sleeves? Can you put pistons out of one engine into another sleeved block? Or are the pistons and sleeves matched? Are all of the pistons for these engines the same diameter or did they do .010, .020, .030 over? I guessed that they just had 1 size piston and sleeve to keep everything simple.

If anyone knows of a good engine, or engine parts, let me know.

 

[Flyingvan911]

You might put in a running take-out and rebuild your old engine in your spare time. That will give you time to do research and pay attention to detail while enjoying a running deuce. It would be interesting to see what you do with your rebuild project.

 

[Seth_O]

After a serious resto-mod on a '69 FJ40, my method became to buy good take-out parts, and install them so I could enjoy my vehicle, and in the meantime rebuild the serviceable pieces I took out of my truck. It was gratifying to take my time and do the work correctly.

Also I work in an office and on a computer most of the day, so there was a certain amount of intrinsic value in working with my hands and doing something in the garage where I could see the result at the end of the day. Plus, it meant I had a bunch of good & rebuilt parts ready for if/when something failed.

 

[SCSG-G4]

JJensen,

Parts are available through large tractor parts places. The LD-465 engine was used in the White and Oliver tractors (135's, 150's and maybe 165's). Last time I looked the rebuild kit was about $2700, but that included the tractor pistons and sleeves, not the multifuel (MAN cycle) ones. The tractors were governed to 2200 rpm under load, but were expected to last 8,000 to 12,000 hours of use between rebuilds. I've posted pictures of the LDS-1A pistons but don't remember what thread it's in.

 

[dozer1]

Interesting...It looks like the White 2-135 and 2-155 had the 478 ci Hercules. Thats all I could find in a quick search. TractorData.com - White tractors sorted by model Didnt see any in Olivers but didnt look that hard. Hey this is interesting White 2-155 Engine Parts tractor parts Pretty close on the price there Mike.

 

[dozer1]

Check this out for re-power options White Conversion Kits If you got 16000.00 eating a hole in your pocket

 

[GoinNutts]

I think it must be guys w/ less then 100 posts siting on all the motors. I got a can motor, rebuilt D turbo waiting for a truck. PM me if you are interested

 

[jrobinson5093]

Me personally I would like you to do a complete rebuild balance and all take your time get it right. Build it like a high dollar race engine. I would like to see what kind of reliable power and what kinda rpms some one with the ability can get with a multi fuel and keep it a multi fuel. but thats just me.

 

[JJensen]

I think that I have a plan if I find a good running engine. I'll still disassemble it. I'll inspect and clean everything. I will be hoping that the bearings look good. I'd like to replace the rod bolts (does anyone know where/if I can buy them?) and resize the rods. Polish the crank if necessary. I'll clean up the heads, possibly replace the rings/hone the cylinders, and balance the rotating assembly. During the inspection, my engine guy said that he may see some areas that can improve the oiling. I'll keep track of my cost, but I should be able to do this without breaking the bank.

PM me if you know of any engines near you.

Thanks!