Old style turnsignals / rear lights - Question

[roger-wilco-66]

Hi guys,

I want to retrofit my deuce with old style front turn signals and rear lights.
Internally, these lights are basically the same except that the front turn signals have clear glasses and the rear lights have red ones.
Now, behind the top glass are two bulbs (one behind a lens in the glass on each light) and I'm not sure which light function has to go there).

To clarify this, please see attached picture. My question now would be:

- For the turn signal, which function is behind Bulb#1 and Bulb #2 (behind lens) ?

- For the rear light, which function is behind Bulb#1 and Bulb #2 (behind lens) ?


Thanks in advance,
Mark

 

[firefox]

It looks like the wires still have their metal tags. Just check the wiring diagram.
It should tell you.
Bruce

 

[roger-wilco-66]

It looks like the wires still have their metal tags. Just check the wiring diagram.
It should tell you.
Bruce

Unfortunatly, the wires are clipped and therefore the tags are gone on the lights I restored. The unit in the picture is a new one which I used as a reference for this posting here. I should have given a note about that in my fist posting.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[txdodge43man]

I have old style front lights on my truck the #1 bulb is your running light and the #2 bulb would be you turn or stop light. Not sure of the tag numbers.

 

[73m819]

thay were NOT turn signals, the rear had the left as a red brake light/running light on top, blackout on the bottom, the the right had blackout upper for brake/running, with blackout on the bottom.

On me old m52, I changed the lower blackout lens to red and moded the houseing for a bigger bulb to make it into turn signals as well changed the right upper lens to red

 

[roger-wilco-66]

Excellent, thanks!
I also have to mod my rear lights, because in Germany red turn signals are not allowed. I removed the innards of the blackout assy, so only the clear lens remained, and put a yellow turn signal bulb in the orginal socket.

Anyway, now I can take the final steps to complete this!

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Barrman]

Not to start a huge arguement here. However, the small bucket lights were used as blinkers. I know for sure on factory fresh M715's. I can imagine they were used the same way on M151 trucks and probably Gama Goats if goats had blinkers.

Charles is correct, the left bulb #1 in your picture is the running light and #2 behind the mini lense inside the lense is the brake/blinker light.

I ran full function brake/blinker covers on my Gasser M35 so I wouldn't have as many reasons to be pulled over. Do you have the seperate mount for the black out stop light? Below is how the rear of my Gasser looked with all the lights on it.

 

[73m819]

Don't know about 715s but on the older deuces and 5t, there was NO blinker, one light was running light, the other was brake, these trucks were made BEFORE turn signals, if you look at a EARLY wiring diagram, you will see that there is not even a provision for turn signals, this is one of the reasons you sepc. a old or new wiring harness when buying one

 

[pwrwagonfire]

Don't know about 715s but on the older deuces and 5t, there was NO blinker, one light was running light, the other was brake, these trucks were made BEFORE turn signals, if you look at a EARLY wiring diagram, you will see that there is not even a provision for turn signals, this is one of the reasons you sepc. a old or new wiring harness when buying one

Thats how the original M37s were as well

 

[Barrman]

As I started my post above. I was not trying to start an arguement. I know and acknowledge you are correct about the early trucks having no blinkers and the passenger side light cover being the black out stop light.

However, at some point in time. I am going to say 1956-1964. A non solid state blinker system was developed to work with the small bucket lights on MV's. Specifically, the M35 and M715. I know them from owning, working on and researching them. The pre-1964 M35 manuals that deal both Gassers and Multifuels mention blinkers and have wiring diagrams for them. The M715 started out in 1967 with the Spartan relay blinker system and then the later trucks, 1967-1969 had the same solid state system trucks do now.

My two Gasser M35's left the government in 1958 with the set up pictured above. They did not have blinkers, but both tail lights had running, brake and b/o markers while the b/o brake was off on its own below the passenger side tail light.

Making my lights also blink is a function of how the wires hook up at the firewall and nothign different at the rear.

 

[73m819]

I would say that is not the typical early gasser truck, that extra blackout light I don't think many have seen, the left running/brake and the right blackout running/ brake is the more typical. My 52 m52 had turn signals added, it had lollipop front turn signals and wired to the trailer cable, non to the rear, a NEW circuit was added for the military turn signal set up. the ORD-8 and 9 don't have anything in it about about turn signal wiring that is there but not being used

Who out there in SS land KNOWS when turn signals were first used or added to MVs, I understand that there was a MWO for turn signals, if so when

 

[Crazyguyla]

I would say that is not the typical early gasser truck, that extra blackout light I don't think many have seen, the left running/brake and the right blackout running/ brake is the more typical. My 52 m52 had turn signals added, it had lollipop front turn signals and wired to the trailer cable, non to the rear, a NEW circuit was added for the military turn signal set up. the ORD-8 and 9 don't have anything in it about about turn signal wiring that is there but not being used

Who out there in SS land KNOWS when turn signals were first used or added to MVs, I understand that there was a MWO for turn signals, if so when

I dont know when the military went with the outboard blackout stoplight on trucks/trailers, but I remember going through training at ft dix and the driving manual covered the running light/black out marker light(left) Blackout stoplight/ blackout marker(right), running lights/blackout markers/turn signals and a seperate black out stop light, and the composite lights we know today. The manual was dated mid 80's. The NOS gasser front harness I purchased a while back has a spot to hook up the pre three wire flasher. I'll attach a picture of the "flasher box". the harness for the turn signal lever/brake lights was attached to the other side of the box, found a turn signal lever harness when I was rummaging through a parts pile. We had old generator trailers with the same divorced blackout stoplight when I first arrived to ft campbell in the 90's.

 

[Barrman]

That is a great picture of the old Spartan made relay flasher box.

To continue the arguement that isn't an arguement.

The M715 came from the factory in January 1967 with the Spartan blinker system. They changed over starting in October 1967 to the solid state blinker control box as they ran out of the Sparton boxes. That I know without a doubt.

My M715 was made 11/67 and has the solid state box with the solid state blinker arm and a wiring harness for that box.

Pistolnut had his truck in my class. His was made 10/67. 98 vehicles before mine. Sparton box. We swapped it over.

Agengr had his truck at my house. 10/67 made. 76 vehicles before mine. Solid state box and wiring.

Semis has a truck in my class now. 10/67 build date. 54 before mine. Solid state box and wiring.

Kwai has a truck at my house. I haven't looked at the build date or blinker system. Been siting here two years too.

I will do some research about the only other widely used vehicle introduced in the 1960's, The M151 and try to figure out which version of them came with blinkers.

Dueces and 5 tons are probably going to come down to a strung out conversion at the depot level. Maybe the M35A2 introduction/ conversion about the same time as the M715 production? However, since the switch over to what we call the "composite" big bucket lights came along around 1970. Along with the huge rebuild program for Vietnam trucks headed home on Guam at the same time. There probably will not be an exact date for bilnker addition, big bucket light swaps or anything else with the M35 trucks.

I don't know a thing about 5 tons and won't even presume to guess about their blinkers.