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upgrading the ldt

SasquatchSanta

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it's been well above the 70mph speed limit. [thumbzup]

but the vibration is real bad at 2500 driveshaft rpm (~65mph) and above combined with generous amounts of throttle. it isn't bad under part throttle.

regardless, i don't drive it above 65 for long at all and try to avoid the vibration altogether until i can get the solution identified.
Have you made any mods to the brakes to accomodate the "well above" 70mph speed? Also, it sounds like you're running oversized tires and wheels which further taxes the brakes. The 395s I'm running are only rated for 68mph.

I hear a lot about how to get more power and speed out of these old war horses but very little about how to stop them. As responsible hobbyists the onus is on us to make sure we preserve the hobby by not posing a safety threat to other motorists.

If the gubument ever bans selling MVs to citizens I fear it will be because a minivan full of kids got ran over by an out of control MV. I don't want them to be my (or your) kids or grand kids

I'm not trying to start a scrap --- I just worry about the future of the hobby.
 

blackrock

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Phoenixville,Pa
it's been well above the 70mph speed limit. [thumbzup]

but the vibration is real bad at 2500 driveshaft rpm (~65mph) and above combined with generous amounts of throttle. it isn't bad under part throttle.

regardless, i don't drive it above 65 for long at all and try to avoid the vibration altogether until i can get the solution identified.

shot in the dark, i know this issue only occurs when pulling away from a dead stop but how is the rear axle angle in relationship to the transmission angle? What driveshafts joints are you running on the rear? single ujoint or cv? Kyle
 

blackrock

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Have you made any mods to the brakes to accomodate the "well above" 70mph speed? Also, it sounds like you're running oversized tires and wheels which further taxes the brakes. The 395s I'm running are only rated for 68mph.

I hear a lot about how to get more power and speed out of these old war horses but very little about how to stop them. As responsible hobbyists the onus is on us to make sure we preserve the hobby by not posing a safety threat to other motorists.

If the gubument ever bans selling MVs to citizens I fear it will be because a minivan full of kids got ran over by an out of control MV. I don't want them to be my (or your) kids or grand kids

I'm not trying to start a scrap --- I just worry about the future of the hobby.
look at his build up page. His truck is bobbed and has 4 way disc brakes from differential engineering.
 

mudguppy

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Have you made any mods to the brakes to accomodate the "well above" 70mph speed? Also, it sounds like you're running oversized tires and wheels which further taxes the brakes. ...
yes - brakes are better than good. [thumbzup]


... The 395s I'm running are only rated for 68mph. ...
yes...... at max load and pressure. so you're good for 68mph at, what, 9800lbs per tire or something?

i'm running 1600s, but don't have 14k lbs on each tire. tires are rated for max capacity at a speed low enough to sustain acceptable rates of heat generation from sidewall flex.
 

mudguppy

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shot in the dark, i know this issue only occurs when pulling away from a dead stop but how is the rear axle angle in relationship to the transmission angle? What driveshafts joints are you running on the rear? single ujoint or cv? Kyle
the traction bars completely keep the rear axle from rolling.

but, that is something that i have not looked at. it's just a lengthened OE style intermediate shaft w/ single U's, but i should check the input/output relationships for alignment.

i doubt that will be it, but it's a good point! [thumbzup]
 

SasquatchSanta

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yes - brakes are better than good. [thumbzup]




yes...... at max load and pressure. so you're good for 68mph at, what, 9800lbs per tire or something?

i'm running 1600s, but don't have 14k lbs on each tire. tires are rated for max capacity at a speed low enough to sustain acceptable rates of heat generation from sidewall flex.
Sorry I missed the line at the bottom of the page about the brakes. That's good to know --- I cheked around a year or so ago for disc brakes but didn't find a supplier. "outstanding!" [thumbzup]
 

mudguppy

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when you speak w/ Randy about the Wilwood calipers you get a different feeling; he wasn't happy w/ the deflection from the calipers that he uses for his 8-lug hub / brake conversion for any sort of large GVWR.

i recommend going w/ Steve. [thumbzup]
 

islasaero

Member
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Location
Bell, California
The best way is to get the rears off a crashed semi that either way come with better brakes, air bags, better ratios and nice aluminum rims with 10 lug pattern. check out autobidmaster.com for a truck. that's the way I'll be going. Sooner or later more semi's with disc brakes will be on the road.rofl
 

Squirt-Truck

Master Chief
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
Marietta, Georgia
How did the thread go from upgrading the LDT to brakes?

Will someone please tell me why they feel disk brakes are better than drums? (Or is this fuel for a different thread....Mods?)
 

mudguppy

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disc brakes offer higher contact pressures between the pads and disc compared to the shoes and drums. they dissipate heat better, are self cleaning, and essentially zero maintenance. since it's a self-contained design and doesn't rely on external linkages and other parts, the failure mode is a much shorter list; therefore, disc brakes are much more reliable by design.
 

SasquatchSanta

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Northern Minnesota
look at his build up page. His truck is bobbed and has 4 way disc brakes from differential engineering.
I beg to differ with you blackrock. Mudguppy's build up page as you call it doesn't say anything about diferential engineering --- it just mentiones disc brakes.

A few months ago I called around looking for a manufacturer/supplier of disc brakes for my M35 and M37 that were recommend for highway use. I got the impression from the people I spoke with that they were apprehensive about recommending them for highway/freeway use. They seemed to be tuned more for mudder and rock climb market than highway use.

Obviously, I missed Differential Engineering which appears to indeed have a good highway disc brake product.

It's good to know about Differential Engineering because they bring something to the table that is much needed from a safety aspect for those that choose to push the envelope.
 

SasquatchSanta

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Northern Minnesota
Getting back to getting more performance out of (souping up) the LDT:

As someone that has put a lot of thought into this subject and ended up taking the LDS swap-out route I have to agree somewhat with the poster that said something to the effect that trying to soup up the LDT is like gold plating a t%rd.

It's not that the LDT is a substandard engine it's just that (IMHO) you can't get a LOT of SAFE LONG TERM performance out of it without spending a lot of money on the project. Once again --- IMHO --- you need the oil cooled pistons to safely push this engine very hard for very long. This is the secret of the LDS's success. Unfortunately, pistons are about as far into an engine as you can get. I also believe the cam is diferent in the LDS. The lDS sure sounds different.

As fun as it is to dream about all the neat tricks that can be performed to get better preformance, unless you own your own engine shop they all cost money.

Considering that the deuce is and always will be, I feel the LDS route is the way to go. Having said this, I have to admit that Mudguppy's Cummins mod has me drooling in lust :drool:.
On the other hand I'm told a set of injectors for a Cumming runs close to $4,000.00 "Ouch"

NOW --- Let's throw rational out the window and brainstorm some fun stuff --- like doing some weird preverted things to an LDT. If I had a strong LDT to play with here is what I'd do.

First, I'd buy a pyro and boost gauge. Second, I'd take an oath that I'd religiously watch both of them. Third, I'd either liberally dose the fuel tank with lots of Marvels Mystery Oil or, better yet, switch over to a heavy blend of 100% filtered used motor oil. Forth, (here is where it gets fun), I'd start dosing with propane.

I've always felt there was a lot safe performance that could be had for very little money by dosing with propane. There are ready made kits out there that can be had but IMHO that takes away from the fun.

I've read that the performance is better if propane is injected (dosed) pre-turbo. The reason being that the turbo serves to mix the propane with air. I've also been told this can be dangerous because should the propane ignite in the manifold it could blow up the turbo.

I'd install orifice injection receivers both pre and post turbo and experiment with both, one at a time naturally. I'd start with small orifices to see how it effected performance.

At one time I planned to install something similar to a two-speed alxe button on the gear shift. To turn on the propane pull up on the button to shut it off, push down. Once above say 1,800 RPM you could activate the propane when climbing a hill (or passing a Greyhound Bus :beer:). A simple manual system with a picket full of different sized orifices for experimentation could get the system off the ground. Later SS members with more smarts that I have could refine and automate the system.

I'm told propane is a drying fuel thus the liberal dosing of Marvels Mystery Oil or conversion to filtered waste motor oil. I'm also told propane is a cool burning fuel therefore thee "might" not be a heat problem. If there was a water injection system could also run parallel with the propane system. I personally wouldn't install the water system until I learned that it was indeed needed. Simpliity is king.

Sorry for accidently hijacking this thread earlier. Hopefully this will get things back on track.

Ernie
 

mudguppy

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... On the other hand I'm told a set of injectors for a Cumming runs close to $4,000.00 "Ouch"...
someone has lied to you, badly.

a set of wild stage 4 injectors would be a little more than $1k, but that's crazy fuel. you can get a set of replacement injectors for $400 and some mild injectors for about the same or a few bucks more.
 
Last edited:

JasonS

Well-known member
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Location
Eastern SD
you need the oil cooled pistons to safely push this engine very hard for very long. This is the secret of the LDS's success.
Every LDT and LD that I've seen has the regulator on the side of the block for the oil cooling. The only difference that I am aware of is that the LDS has an extra cooling channel in the piston which results in 100F reduction in top ring land temperature. Not significant IMHO.
 
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