Ctis, air lockers and bigger 14.5x20 tires...

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Since I became a deuce owner for the last couple of years-- I've often puzzled over why the basic M35A2 series trucks lack the following:

1) Air-Lockers ( I have recently purchased 3x RD145 model lockers from ARB)
2) CTIS ( in the process of procuring 3x M35A3 axles and CTIS system)
3) Personal Heater ( why every truck didn't come with baffles me most places do get cold)
4) Engine Rated at 200hp or more...


So I've decided to build a "Super M35A2". What does this mean? Well here is what I think a "Super M35A2" has: 1) it has the axles rebuilt from an A3 with ARB Air Lockers and custom 16 spline axles front and rear; 2) CTIS, for me the CTIS is about maximizing the traction of the truck on soft or unstable surfaces; 3) heater-- well who wants to be cold in Up State NY in Louisville it wasn't so bad but -4 is pretty **** cold; 4) Horse Power bigger tires, more weight greater rolling mass and so on means to me a need for more power. 5) Air Steering Assist system- after all bigger tires mean harder work to turn at low speeds...


So, what do I have already? Well, I have the ARB Air Lockers, Air Dryer, and switches for all of that stuff. What do I need well I'm going with a M35A3 to scavenge parts from (Surplus places were just too high for everything). So right now I'm cruising the web to purchase an M35A3 in running condition for cheap. I want to sell off the engine, transmission, transfer case, bed, chassis frame, suspension parts, and basically everything else on the truck.

The ultimate goal of my project is to have a truck that is the best possible truck it can be. To have a truck that can easily climb a 60-70% grade. A truck with ability to drive through mud that is 20 or more inches deep. In short a truck the power, traction and comfort to drive year around in all conditions.

 

[Recovry4x4]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-...snt-have-these-ill-never-know.html:deadhorse:

 

[drgreg]

The weakest link on any M series Deuce is the brakes. With all of your upgrades, I would move a major brake redesign to the top of the list.

 

[jcappeljr]

It might be easier and cheaper to start with a M35a3,just a thought.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

The weakest link on any M series Deuce is the brakes. With all of your upgrades, I would move a major brake redesign to the top of the list.

I might put the split break system from the A3 into the truck. How much faster will the truck go with 14.5:20R tire? In forth gear a regular M35A3 only does about 53mph in high with the engine running at 2700rpm in Fourth ( direct). I figure I'll probably see about 50-51mph top in fourth gear (direct) LDT engine running at 2600rpm. Perhaps I'll see 58-60mph in 5th OD at 2600rpm. Probably having better breaks will help on the road driving. But off-road traction, traction, and power are what the M35's weakest links are if you ask me.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

It might be easier and cheaper to start with a M35a3,just a thought.

I don't like the Allison transmission in the A3 trucks. And I'm not that keen on the Cat 3116 engine either... But I would want to put a Fuller 6spd gear box in the truck. And right now I have the ARB lockers and the M35A2 so I figure make this the coolest truck of the week. Plus I've already got a LDS-1A injector pump on the truck, I'll get the bigger two-hole injectors, add the air-box from the A3 has greater flow. That will increase power right off the bat. Then I'll have the injectors balanced and the IP pump checked out. So I figure I should get about 200hp out of the combination. Plus it will be need to say my multi-fuel makes 200hp. That should be enough for the M35A2 to be better in the off road conditions without being too destructive on the trucks drive-line.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-...snt-have-these-ill-never-know.html:deadhorse:

True-- but this time I actually have the parts... So now I'm not beating the dead horse-- i'm just talking about my Hot-Rod plans for my deuce.

 

[lonegunman]

Go to Erik's Military Surplus and check his truck. He added an overdrive and has plenty of speed. The CTIS system is mostly junk. That being said, some guys have good luck with theirs right up til they break. Why toss the engine unless you go with a Cummins? Going backwards to a mulit-fueler is not that great an idea. A 225hp Cat 3116 was sold new in the crate from the GL last month for 6 grand. You could have got 55hp and a hundred pounds of torque right there.

The quickest way to go faster is to buy highway tires, big 14.5x20 mudders are not intended for 65mph anyway, check the company specs on them.

The list of stuff not in an M35 is long and complicated. The truck was designed 60 years ago and things have moved onwards. The reason the military is getting rid of them is simple, they are a great truck whose time has past. People want AC, heat, automatic trans, electric wipers, you need to operate in chemical environments, wearing 60 pounds of body armor and people are bigger.

While everyone wants speed, I always wonder about running 65mph with gearing the way it is on a deuce. That seems like it would cause heat issues.

Buy an A3 and take it for a drive. I drive 120 miles round trip to my property hauling anything from two tons of gravel to equipment for cross country work, the thing is slow but runs like a champ.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Go to Erik's Military Surplus and check his truck. He added an overdrive and has plenty of speed. The CTIS system is mostly junk. That being said, some guys have good luck with theirs right up til they break. Why toss the engine unless you go with a Cummins? Going backwards to a mulit-fueler is not that great an idea. A 225hp Cat 3116 was sold new in the crate from the GL last month for 6 grand. You could have got 55hp and a hundred pounds of torque right there.

The quickest way to go faster is to buy highway tires, big 14.5x20 mudders are not intended for 65mph anyway, check the company specs on them.

The list of stuff not in an M35 is long and complicated. The truck was designed 60 years ago and things have moved onwards. The reason the military is getting rid of them is simple, they are a great truck whose time has past. People want AC, heat, automatic trans, electric wipers, you need to operate in chemical environments, wearing 60 pounds of body armor and people are bigger.

While everyone wants speed, I always wonder about running 65mph with gearing the way it is on a deuce. That seems like it would cause heat issues.

Buy an A3 and take it for a drive. I drive 120 miles round trip to my property hauling anything from two tons of gravel to equipment for cross country work, the thing is slow but runs like a champ.

I don't want more speed- I want 14.5x20 tires for the added traction in the off-road conditions I like to drive under.

Lockers have been around for a longtime. The Kraz 255B had them back in the 1960's and so did Tatra Trucks. I can understand why mechanical lockers might be considered problematic for a truck like M35A2 that is going to be doing a lot driving on paved roads. But one Air-Lockers were created in the 1960's I don't see why they weren't retrofitted to the vehicles.

Am I married to the Multi-Fuel Engine... No, but i have one in my M35A2 and to save costs and put more money in other places I'm willing sell off an A3's 3116 engine. I would rather have the 5spd Manual gearbox and maybe a little less horsepower but have better axles and gear sets to absorb the pounding of the ARB Airlocker.

I've driven the A3's they drive just like my A2 but a little better in the steering department.

Do I believe the CTIS is great? Well I think it has advantages, and I've been talking to the people who built and they will sell me replacement parts to fix it when it breaks. So I'm not so worried about that.

You know some might want other things on their trucks but this is my idea of a Super M35A2 it has more traction, more power, and better driveability in adverse conditions. Because while my M35A2 might live on pavement 80% of the time it is that other 20% of the time when I really have fun with the truck.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I would to get a Tatra T-815 or T-813 series truck in the future-- but right now I would like to get my M35A2 to be able to do stuff more like this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3eXRKhzQA&feature=related[/media]

 

[cranetruck]

The deuce didn't come with those features because they were not required 99% of the time.

The Norwegian version of the deuce, the M621 (?) has lockers and even an ROP.

Check out M35tom and his "Millennium" deuce and his locker equipped current deuce.

The IMHO 'improved" deuce and 5-ton truck from the '60s is the m656 8x8 series where most of the shortcomings of the M35/M54 trucks were addressed. However, they were apparently overqualified and never made it past 500 units, cargo, road tractor and van bodies combined. They were also able to swim or ford 4-5 ft of water without doing anything except waiting 5 minutes for pressurizing axles, brake drums, engine, transmission and more.

For all things they did feature, they did not have lockers.

Bigger tires means higher CG and may not always be desirable.

Maybe you can model your CTIS after the 1940s DUKW...

 

[Kohburn]

sounds like it would be a lot easier and possibly cheaper to just repower (new engine/trans) an A3

it has the brakes, tires, ctis already.

 

[Recovry4x4]

sounds like it would be a lot easier and possibly cheaper to just repower (new engine/trans) an A3

it has the brakes, tires, ctis already.

A2 nose and powerpack. Makes sense.

Have you researched the 14.5 tires? Unless buying new, might be worth some digging.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

The deuce didn't come with those features because they were not required 99% of the time.

The Norwegian version of the deuce, the M621 (?) has lockers and even an ROP.

Check out M35tom and his "Millennium" deuce and his locker equipped current deuce.

The IMHO 'improved" deuce and 5-ton truck from the '60s is the m656 8x8 series where most of the shortcomings of the M35/M54 trucks were addressed. However, they were apparently overqualified and never made it past 500 units, cargo, road tractor and van bodies combined. They were also able to swim or ford 4-5 ft of water without doing anything except waiting 5 minutes for pressurizing axles, brake drums, engine, transmission and more.

For all things they did feature, they did not have lockers.

Bigger tires means higher CG and may not always be desirable.

Maybe you can model your CTIS after the 1940s DUKW...

What is interesting about the M-Series trucks developed after WWII is that their primary theater of operations was the continent Europe. And oddly enough trucks like the Tatra T-813, Kraz 255B, and Ural 375 were all designed to operate in Western and Eastern Europe. And I think the Soviet and Warsaw Pact designers created better trucks than the US Trucks of the same area (or even today).

Let's be honest the US Military often purchased vehicles based on the easy of construction rather than on the effectiveness in combat (the M4 Sherman comes to mind). I often feel that this procurement policy of production simplicity in vehicles was short sided. For example you say that 99% of the time the M35A2 doesn't need lockers. I beg to differ.

I was driving my M35A2 in the woods with a load on it, late one New Years Eve (about 2 years ago). What happened was this I got stuck on a crappy little hill with 2000lbs of weight in the back of my truck? Did I have chains on? No. I reduced air pressure on the tires-- still no help. I had to wait 4 weeks for the snow to melt and the ground to be soft enough to equalize the load and drive out. The point of my story is that with a simple set of air-lockers in the differentials the M35A2 would have been a monster off road.

This year I was pulling out my cousins' Ford Ranger Pick Up truck. The truck was stuck on an ice patch and the area it was in was a open field that had over the weekend filled with 10 inches of snow on top of the ice. So I made it out to the truck with no problems and I could pull it along the flat. However, I once tried to go up a slight hill- perhaps 2% or 3% grade with no weight in the rear ( I didn't have anything to put it into ) and the truck just wouldn't make it. Why? Open Differentials SUCK in slick conditions or when the truck's weight is shifting from side to side so does the traction. Without a means of creating positive traction to both sides of the vehicle it just spins the wheels in these conditions. And adding weight to a truck where the overall total distribution of weight is shifting from left to right with the terrain would require a ballast system like that of a ship's.

And I totally disagree with the idea that M35's weren't designed to go off-road for a majority of their mission. After all look at the wheel travel, the unprepared water fording capability, and so on. These are features you put onto a truck you intend to use in severe off-road conditions. So why not Lockers? This baffles me to no end.

However, I'm going to rectify it. I got my first ARB Air Locker from UPS and it was a thing of pure beauty-- I nearly wept looking at it in the box. It was like gazing upon the subliminal beauty of the Cathedral Hagia Sophia ... I was in awe of the system.

But you know if you like the trucks as they are already. I Say good- Myself I find them to be impressive but lacking in a few areas. So my solution is pragmatic just add parts that will make them into what I want.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

sounds like it would be a lot easier and possibly cheaper to just repower (new engine/trans) an A3

it has the brakes, tires, ctis already.

It might be easier-- but oddly enough it will be cheaper to do what I want. Since I plan on buying an entire A3 truck I can just take off what I want and sell the rest. That will pay for some of the additions. My changes will not be that radical actually. It will look and act like a M35A2 most of the time, but, when I want to go out and really get into the mud and the muck the Air-Lockers and the extra power will make that much more easily accomplished.

 

[Recovry4x4]

It might be easier-- but oddly enough it will be cheaper to do what I want. Since I plan on buying an entire A3 truck I can just take off what I want and sell the rest. That will pay for some of the additions. My changes will not be that radical actually. It will look and act like a M35A2 most of the time, but, when I want to go out and really get into the mud and the muck the Air-Lockers and the extra power will make that much more easily accomplished.

Let me see if I've got this. You currently have an A2. You are going to buy an A3 and swap over the parts you need, axles, ps, ctis etc. From there you will sell the remains to re-coupe some cabbage right? How will that save you money over swapping the nose and powerpack from the A2? You still have the A3 powerpack to sell as well as an entire rolling chassis. I can't locate the savings. Don't get me wrong, its your stuff to do as you please, was just trying to learn how to save a buck or two.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Let me see if I've got this. You currently have an A2. You are going to buy an A3 and swap over the parts you need, axles, ps, ctis etc. From there you will sell the remains to re-coupe some cabbage right? How will that save you money over swapping the nose and powerpack from the A2? You still have the A3 powerpack to sell as well as an entire rolling chassis. I can't locate the savings. Don't get me wrong, its your stuff to do as you please, was just trying to learn how to save a buck or two.

I wasn't very clear there. I was thinking just cheaper than purchasing say 3 axles from an A3, the tires and rims, CTIS controller and so on. I would think that it would be about the same price to buy a new A3 and install the power pack I want in it as it would be to install the parts I want on my A2. However, I don't really like the way the hood and nose look on the A3.

Plus, I've done a great deal of work on my A2 as it is. So I want to keep that A2 looks. And purchasing an A3 seems like the cheapest way to get what I want. Also I'm pretty sure I can sell the transmission, transfer case, engine, box, wiring harness, and other stuff. I think I'll just scrap the chassis itself call it day.

 

[Bob H]

Well if you ever get the air lockers installed, let us know how long it takes you to break some u joints and/or axle shafts.
I believe that you will benefit from adding a split brake system to your truck.

 

[robert c neth]

14.00 x20 military tires stink in the mud i have tried them and ended going to 54" ag tires and bobbing the truck.it can now play with those tatras and i only have 1800.00 bucks in the whole thing .i do run the 14.00 s on the road sometimes.good luck with your rig and show some photos playing in the mud.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Well if you ever get the air lockers installed, let us know how long it takes you to break some u joints and/or axle shafts.
I believe that you will benefit from adding a split brake system to your truck.

I'm going to get them in very soon. I have plans on upgrading the axles to Ouverson 16 spline models. I hope they will provide a longer life span.