GL's Responsibility to Verify Bidders?

[SixSpeed]

Hey Scott, I agree what happened was total crap. I would be less than thrilled if I was bidding on any of them. I wish I could help, hopefully you can figure something out!

Edit: Also, papercu, if you uncheck "autobid" it only takes one person to set a high price.

 

[papercu]

I would like to know what protocols are in place to stop this type of thing?

Did you ask G/L before asking here? I'm sure no one here knows anything about G/L protocols other than what is in G/L TOS.
Do you think G/L wants anybody running up bids and then defaulting?

Surplus prices are quite often set based upon past historical bidding.

A seller may use past bids to set a minimum amount but I don't know anyone that would bid that way except maybe on sealed bids. These are surplus auction and even if there was no bidders defaulting a item could sell for 10,000 one sale and the same item sells for 5,000 next sale or 15,000. Wayne

 

[papercu]

Edit: Also, papercu, if you uncheck "autobid" it only takes one person to set a high price.

So, then that is not "running bids up". unless you bid against that high bid.
You need to know what you feel any item is worth to you and bid that, not be caught up in a bidding war or bidding more than you want because "Well if the other bidder thinks it worth more then it must be" and then claim foul.
OP was asking about any G/L checks for high bidders defaulting. Wayne

 

[expeditionimports]

Yes I asked and the polite reply was to refer me to the default bidder section of the TOS. I have never asserted that it is GL running up the bids, my question is what are they doing to combat large scale bid defaults?

When I show up at the military auctions in Switzerland or Germany, the auction company verifies my ability to purchase. Quite often a copy of the bank draft into my Swiss account is acceptable proof. When I was not "known" in those circles, they spent more effort verifying. After many years of large purchases we became known and the verification became less and less.

You and I will have to dis-agree that past auction prices are not tied to future auction prices. It may not be the case on every specific auction, but in general it is very much what I have experienced over the years. Very much what people comment about on this site.....prices keep going up, etc. Hypothetically, If people see that it takes 7K to buy a M35A3 based upon winning bids, and they really want one, then more than likely next go around they are going to bid 7K or more. That is great and how it works, up until the time that the bidders realize that the only bidder bidding over 5K is a shill or default bidder.

In my opinion GL's responsibility is to try and eliminate shills and default bidders in order to keep the "system" legit.

Cheers,

Scott

Did you ask G/L before asking here? I'm sure no one here knows anything about G/L protocols other than what is in G/L TOS.
Do you think G/L wants anybody running up bids and then defaulting?

A seller may use past bids to set a minimum amount but I don't know anyone that would bid that way except maybe on sealed bids. These are surplus auction and even if there was no bidders defaulting a item could sell for 10,000 one sale and the same item sells for 5,000 next sale or 15,000. Wayne

 

[drgreg]

I have been watching the GL auctions weekly, for years. Bid prices do not seem to be tied to previous bids. Simple supply and demand is mostly in play. M35A3's in our area have been in a steady supply. The bid prices have dropped weekly.
I have seen no real issues with default bidding. GL has to walk a fine line to keep the maximum number of bidders in the process. Some of us on this site no longer have our Swiss bank accounts, but still participate in auctions, with relative success.

 

[paulfarber]

I think that GL is in a no win situation with some people. What option do they have other than enforce the terms they post on the site?

I don't really buy the 'favorite son' theory without any proof.

I would think that the BEST thing they could do is charge a bid fee of 10% of the bid. That keeps out the guys who can just bid up knowing they will lose, but still raise the price. And that charge is done before the bid is even recorded. No refunds.

Other than that I see no real solution that doesn't put a burden of GL. I mean if the bidder is paying the default fee then what rule has been broken?

 

[papercu]

In my opinion GL's responsibility is to try and eliminate shills and default bidders in order to keep the "system" legit.

I'm sure they do, why would they not, and I think they do make you have credit card to verify yourself but again we will never know all their way of doing things.
I don't know of any way of vetting a defaulting bidder before they default at least one time.
If they start running complete background checks before you can even bid that may do what you want.

I have never asserted that it is GL running up the bids

GL's responsibility is to try and eliminate shills

Well that would be a shill bidder.

You and I will have to dis-agree that past auction prices are not tied to future auction prices

No disagreement I just don't know anyone that does that. Companies may do that but I go by what I can spend at that time. Wayne

 

[Preacherboy]

I wanted a m818 once, and they were going for excellent prices until the same guy came on and started bidding agressively. I saw the truck I wanted go about a $1,000 higher than I wanted. Yes, I continued to bid because it was a good truck. I stopped at my top limit. I then went to my next truck and the same thing happened. I went through 9 trucks like this until I won the one that I got. The only bidder to go that high with me on that one was the same guy.

At recovery day I get down there and the GL rep says, "a guy defaulted on 9 of these trucks"...so the truck I wanted I didn't get and I could have got it!

It irritates you, but it happens. Obviously $200,000 is a lot more than the $30,000 this guy defaulted on. It is all part of the GL game! How much is it worth to you to buy in a private sale?

I know m101a2's have been selling for under $500 and I saw one locally for sale for $1,200...to me it is worth the auction chance.

 

[paulfarber]

My current M35a2 was a 'second time round' truck because the first winner defaulted.

I think a good solution would be unless you post a bond, you can only spend $x per week/auction cycle (however GL does it).


Not many people would ever need 9 trucks per week. If you are a business then having to secure you bids should not be a big deal.

 

[m16ty]

I know it sucks but there's really no way to prevent it other that penalties (which they do).

The question is, why would somebody run the bids up on several trucks knowing they can't or won't pay for them? Have they been screwed by GL and are trying to cause them trouble or are they just starting trouble to be starting trouble? I see no advantage to a bidder doing this so the question is, why? I guess they could be just plain crazy or kids thinking it's a joke.

 

[Chief_919]

One easy thing is to require ID verification before allowing a person to bid.

Photocopy/scan of ID, verification of phone #, etc. I know other auction sites have required me to fax a copy of my ID before activating my account, or verify to a phone #, etc.

GL? You can have as many accounts as you can find the time to setup with free email accounts and made up names.

 

[KsM715]

I know GL bashing is fun for everyone but we still have rules on this site about not posting or sharing bidder #'s.

 

[Chief_919]

I know GL bashing is fun for everyone but we still have rules on this site about not posting or sharing bidder #'s.

A quick look at the rules shows the original post does not violate the letter or the spirit of the rules.

'Sharing of bidder ID numbers or names to avoid bidding against another member"

This is not what is going on here, and not the intent of the discussion.

 

[KsM715]

Unless the bidder is on this site and its his bidder number in question. I dont doubt for a minute that some people on this site have written down those numbers and will be on the lookout in the next auction. Will this thread and that number infuence how someone bids when they see that number in the bid number list of the auction they are bidding in?

This whole thread could have still had the same result with using highest bidder ****........ rather than the actual numbers. Thats all Im saying. The OP wanted to call out that specific bidder.

 

[RealCavDog]

Help ?

You are missing my point. The problem is a systematic Fraud of bidding. A bidder that comes in and bids well over 200K in a single event, should be verified that they have the ability to purchase. Bidder #77562986 had his bidding turned off during the auction until he could prove to GL that he had the funds to purchase...which he did and ended up with the truck. If this oversight was done for a guy purchasing 14K, what was done for the guy pushing 200K?

This is not a default on a single auction. This is a bidder that pushed prices up on 20+ auctions and defaulted on all of them. I would like to know what protocols are in place to stop this type of thing?

Surplus prices are quite often set based upon past historical bidding. If I see that I did not get XXX lots when I bid 8K and they were sold for 10K, next time I am more likely to bid 10K if I want said lots. That works up until it is found out that the "Sales" at 10K were all frauds........


Not sure if this will help on smaller deals, and only applies to single sales, but seems like a great start ! Just copied this a few minutes ago !

Dear Valued Customer,
This is a friendly reminder that the Government Liquidation Terms and Conditions have recently changed. Effective Friday, July 1, 2011, credit cards will not be accepted for any single charge in excess of $10,000. Payment will be required in the form of certified funds, i.e. wire transfer, cashier’s check, or money order for charges in excess of $10,000. Please click here to view the changes to Section 6: C & G- #2 of the Terms and Conditions.

 

[paulfarber]

Shill bidding is not really whats going on. Unless you can prove it.

Every internet auction runs the risk of a non-paying bidder. And as mentioned getting a GL account is not a huge deal, no more than filling out a form online.

It could be a 15 year kid just pressing buttons, or a guy with a axe to grind. Either way what you are asking for puts an undue burden on GL that can only make the prices go up due to the new complexity.

 

[3dAngus]

My educated guess is that this is probably someone who captured a password and had some fun with it. It has happened on this site more than once, where a password was gotten, and the hacker posted all kinds of worthless info on almost every thread.

It would be even more fun for a kid or demented individual with a password to bid up an auction.

 

[Chief_919]

Shill bidding is not really whats going on. Unless you can prove it.

Every internet auction runs the risk of a non-paying bidder. And as mentioned getting a GL account is not a huge deal, no more than filling out a form online.

It could be a 15 year kid just pressing buttons, or a guy with a axe to grind. Either way what you are asking for puts an undue burden on GL that can only make the prices go up due to the new complexity.

Bidder verfication like I posted above is easy enough for them to manage.

In fact, another auction site owned by the same people uses phone # verification. So they can do it.

 

[Jump Start]

Bet he was a Zombie whose account went dead

 

[expeditionimports]

Every internet auction runs the risk of a non-paying bidder. And as mentioned getting a GL account is not a huge deal, no more than filling out a form online.

It could be a 15 year kid just pressing buttons, or a guy with a axe to grind. Either way what you are asking for puts an undue burden on GL that can only make the prices go up due to the new complexity.

I disagree. A simple computer program that disables a bidders ability to bid once they reach 50K, 100K, etc., until they have been verified, would not be difficult. It could be automated, up until the point of the verification. Those bidders that know they will be reaching these dollar values could easily be verified ahead of time. What portion of the auctions do you think that this would be a factor in? I would venture to guess not that many.

What do you think costs more......dealing with the fall out of a Major Default Bidder, or the 5-10 minutes or less of GL staff time to make sure the bidder is legitimate?

There is no question defaults are going to happen, and there are viable reasons for them. However, there is a big difference between a single auction impacted by an individual default versus a person or company coming in and driving the prices up on numerous auctions simultaneously and then defaulting.

Cheers,

Scott