Newbie Here With MEP-016Bs

[ETN550]

Hi Everyone,

I have been lurking here a while gathering info on the smaller generators. I recently acquired a couple of MEP-016Bs from a GL auction.

Got them home and have been working on checking them over and making them ready for use. I have one running pretty well and can call it a success except that the shutdown solenoid will occasionally jump or stutter causing a slight miss. Seems to be getting less of a problem as it is run so I'm leaving it as is for now. I had to manually hold it retracted to initially start it then it seemed to catch and now it may run for 15 minutes before it stutters once and resumes running. Maybe just dirty contacts in a relay? Now retracts properly when the control switch is put n the run position.

The other one is now running but blowing black smoke. Not a lot but just enough to be visible and soot the concrete a little. Since I'm an ex diesel Engineer I have some ideas but if anyone knows of common problems with this and common fixes let me know. The air filter is clean and I am at 900ft above sea level so it is getting air. There is a lot of noise in the valve cover so maybe the valve adjustment is way off.

So I plan to check:

Valve clearances
Injector leakage and spray pattern
Injection Pump plunger and barrel
Injection pump delivery valve.
Maybe cam or injection timing, if that is even possible to get out of spec.

Don't know what else it could be. Ideas?

What has to be done to get the valve cover off?

I have some electrical questions so will post up another thread for that. I'll take some pics too.

Doug

 

[cranetruck]

Diesel generators "wet stack" when operated below full power, may just take a few hours (?) of running to "clear the pipes"...

 

[ETN550]

Yes I have seen wet stacking. This is more of a black smoke than the liquid black slobber. I did run a 4kw heater which registered just under 100% on the load meter for about 1 hour with no change. The funny thing is that it started stone cold without preheat and literally took off running on the first bump of the starter.

I started taking it apart tonight. The manual only says to check for intake blockage in case of black smoke. I did that this evening and found nothing in the intake. Since I have worked around diesels and epair shops I have seen a shop rag left in things before. Especially when they get shoved in the intake to keep dirt out.

The top end was extremely clean inside, just like new, no sludge no carbon or soot. I checked the service manual and found that this Onan 106B engine has hydraulic lifters and since there was no play in the rockers the lash must be ok.

Next I'm going to check the timing. the service manual says 22 degrees before top dead center. It looks simple to do and I think I can rig up the on board aux fuel pump to push fuel through the injection pump while I roll the engine over to 22 degrees and look for the fuel flow to stop.

I did notice the governor linkage was mis adjusted as the droop screw was turned in all the way. But that would not cause the smoke. Just something else to get set correctly. If the timing is ok then I'm going to pull the injection pump and injector and have them tested, cleaned and reset. So far I am really impressed with the build quality and robust design of this gen set.

Since it started so well I believe the compression is very good also.

If anyone has any other things to check let me know.

 

[Isaac-1]

I also have a MEP-701a (MEP-016b in ASK housing), it easily starts with no preheating down to about 30 degrees F, it does tend to give a few puffs of black smoke for the first few seconds after starting, but clears up in 10-20 seconds. Mine shows about 900 hours on the clock.

Ike

 

[ETN550]

I also have a MEP-701a (MEP-016b in ASK housing), it easily starts with no preheating down to about 30 degrees F, it does tend to give a few puffs of black smoke for the first few seconds after starting, but clears up in 10-20 seconds. Mine shows about 900 hours on the clock.

Ike

Hi Ike,

I like the 701A very much and hope to have one someday but thought I would get started with the 016B since it is more in the open and I can tinker with it easier. I wish someone had real dB readings at 3M for the 016B and the 701A. If I get one or both of my 016Bs perfectly tuned and polished then I could look for a 701A with a super straight ASK and exchange parts to make a premium 701A.

I bought two 016Bs at the same GL auction recently in GA. One has 1300+ hrs and the other has 55 hrs. The one with 1300+ runs just like you say yours does. A puff of smoke on a cold start, no preheat, pretty much cleared up by the time it gets to high idle and I adjust the volts and frequency. It's only issue is a intermitant shutdown solenoid drop out which should be something simple. I have done a thourough check out and am quite pleased with this unit. With the various relays and float switch it could be one of several things. But I have run it about 4 hours under load and the intermittant burp is less frequent the more it runs so if maybe dirty contacts and will be better with more running and vibration and heat. It could be the solenoid too because as fast as it extends and drops out it picks right back up. It is so fast that there is not a drop on the meters under load but I hear a miss and I see the plunger slap the fuel lever. Also, many solenoids use a large inrush current to pull in and then a small holding current to maintain the retracted position and not overheat. Quite possibly the retracting coil or whatever associated resister, etc. in the solenoid is the problem. I can switch it with the good one on the other unit to check.

The second unit with the low hours is the smoker. It is not an extreme amount of smoke but after an hour or so there is a tinted spot from the exhaust on my concrete and I can barely see the smoke coming out of the pipe. 50% load or more will cause it. The engine seems to have a little more vibration too, but nothing alarming and as the rubber motor mounts age vibration can come and go. Although I did not measure fuel economy it seems more thirsty than the other unit. I think I will get the injector tested next before I check the timing. I was going to try to use the aux fuel pump to provide fuel pressure to time the injection pump but I don't believe it will have sufficient pressure to do the job. Because I have the exhaust, intake, and air shroud off of it I probably should not run it that way otherwise I would swap the injector from the good unit. It s a good idea to pop test the injector anyway. The diesel shop can do it in a few minutes and check for tip dribbling, opening pressure, and spray pattern. I saw in the manual where the tips can be replaced separate and the opening pressure can be set with shims.

I want to say that these are top notch units and I believe very well taken care of. They probably set some records for pricing as they went pretty high but still compared dollar for dollar to any other product out there they are worth a lot more yet. My only concern is the noise level. I might try making a very tight and well thought out enclosure. Or maybe graduate to the 701A!

Doug

P.S. Thanks for your comments and knowledge on the electrical end. I searched many threads last night and see that my machines may very well be able to make 120/240 1ph with a grounded neutral for 120.

 

[Isaac-1]

I have checked my MEP 701a with a sound level meter a year or two ago, I don't recall the exact reading, but can check it again, but it may be a few days as I am recovering from surgery at the moment. I do recall it was identical to my Sears push mower (I think it is a 4HP, bought the last year they used the HP ratings on small lawn mowers) so certainly not quiet, as I recall even with the ASK it was about 8-10dB louder than the 1,800 rpm 30KW Kohler diesel generator powered by a 4 cylinder John Deere engine I have providing backup power at my elderly mother's house.

Ike

 

[derf]

Wet stacking is more of a problem in larger gens. I doubt you'll ever see it in the single cylinder 3600RPM gens.

Your smoker probably just needs a tune up, valves set, etc.
If that doesn't do it, you may try swapping the injector pumps and see if the smoke follows the pump.
I've had one apart before but I can't remember much about it. The larger air cooled Onans have adjustable injectors. You can also try swapping the injectors and see if the smoke follows.

 

[ETN550]

Wet stacking is more of a problem in larger gens. I doubt you'll ever see it in the single cylinder 3600RPM gens.

Your smoker probably just needs a tune up, valves set, etc.
If that doesn't do it, you may try swapping the injector pumps and see if the smoke follows the pump.
I've had one apart before but I can't remember much about it. The larger air cooled Onans have adjustable injectors. You can also try swapping the injectors and see if the smoke follows.

Yes, this is exactly where I am at. I'm good with diesels and engines and I have read the manuals so I think I know how to tune it and adjust things and swap the parts. I am currently working on making a slide hammer so I can get the injector out safely and without damage. The smoke is such that I do believe it is a tuneup issue as you say and nothing more.

I'll pull the injector and get it checked, then if nothing is found wrong swap it out. The manual does say thse injectors can be adjusted too using shims.

The injection pump can be disassembled in a clean environment and the plunger and barrel checked for scratches and scoring. The delivery check valve on top of the pump can be checked for tight closure (leakback) and the timing is set at 22 degrees by adding or subtracting shims under the injection pump. To set or check timing a separate high pressure fuel pump is connected to the injection pump supply and turned on and fuel is flowed through the the injection pump (Like the transfer pump does but more pressure). As fuel is flowing through the injection pump the engine is slowly turned by hand. When 22 degrees comes up on the marker the injection pump plunger will close the fuel ports and cause the flow of fuel coming out the of return to stop. If the stoppage of fuel occurs at less or more than 22 degrees position then the shims are adjusted and the check is performed again. There is a plug near the block by the starter that has the pointer and the engine flywheel is marked an can be seen with the plug removed. Not a hard thing to do but I need to find some hose and matching fuel fittings and figure out how big a pump I need. I might just take it stripped down and ready to test to a diesel shop since they have the pressure pump hoses and fittings.

It does have great compression and no air leaks in the fuel system because I was just jogging and bumping the starter to rotate it and it took off running!

 

[ken]

My 701 has always been a smoker. Mostly at start up. I have my own pop tester and have checked the spray pattern on the injector. It looked good with no dribbling. Since i couldnt tell a difference on noise i removed all the outside insulation panels. It's pretty hot here and so i was hoping to help it run cooler. I also shorten the exaust after removing the insulation. This seemed to cut down on the smoke. Mabye the muffler is clogged causing too much back pressure?

 

[derf]

My 701 has always been a smoker. Mostly at start up. I have my own pop tester and have checked the spray pattern on the injector. It looked good with no dribbling. Since i couldnt tell a difference on noise i removed all the outside insulation panels. It's pretty hot here and so i was hoping to help it run cooler. I also shorten the exaust after removing the insulation. This seemed to cut down on the smoke. Mabye the muffler is clogged causing too much back pressure?

A 701A with the panels removed is a 016B or 016E.
Let me know if you want to get rid of the end panels that go on the fuel tank end. I have the other 4 panels, but am missing those two.

It seems like all my Diesel MEPs smoke a bit at startup. Those one or two revs that don't ignite and the initial RPM run up cause a bit of a flood condition, I think.

 

[ETN550]

Hi,

Just a quick update on my mep-016B's.

The high hour one that was missing intermittantly due to the shutdown solenoid slapping the fuel lever turned out to be a bad connector on the solenoid harness at the solenoid. The original snap on connector was replaced with two solderless push on connectors that were squashed on the wires with pliers. Probably a field repair. Anyway two new connectors and it runs like a clock! I loaded it for 1-1/2 hours tonight and never missed a beat.

The other one with the black smoke got its' injector rebuilt at a diesel shop. All parts in stock, new tip, reset nozzle pressure, cleaned body and reconditioned gun black. Just like brand new and next day turnaround! I have it back in the engine and have bled the system and ready to run tomorrow without the muffler to eliminate clogged muffler as a possibility. If it runs bad without the muffler and with a new injector then I'm going to get the injection pump gone through and re-timed. Since the spray pattern was poor on the original injector and it exhibited some dribbling on the test bench I'm hoping the injector rebuild resolves the smoke issue.

This is a great discussion board and I have already learned so much. I'll try to post up some pics soon. My motorcycle lift works excellent for getting the machine elevated to a comfortable height to work on. I lift it up 12 inches with a come along in my rafters and slide the M/C jack underneath. Then I can get lift all the way up to about 30 inches!

Oh, one other thing, I did was to weld up a new battery tray to handle a pair of 12VDC lawn tractor batteries. The batteries are found all over for under $40 each and I have another $30 or so in materials. I'll post pics. One cool thing I did is re-use the existing battery cutoff terminal on the new jumper cable. This lets me not only cut off the batteries but isolate them for 12VDC charging in parallel while keeping all the cables attached to the battery!

 

[derf]

Thanks for the update. Your input helps make this site better.
Post pics when you can.

 

[Isaac-1]

Ok, I just measured the sound level on my MEP-701a using a cheap made in China digital sound level meter. In peak reading A mode at 3 meters I get about 90dB (fluctuates between 89-91), in averaging C mode I get 80 dB. Readings were with no load from the front of the unit, positioning allow echoes that could throw off reading, also this was done 50 ft or so from a somewhat busy street with afternoon traffic, background with generator off reads around 65 dB).

Ike

 

[derf]

Ok, I just measured the sound level on my MEP-701a using a cheap made in China digital sound level meter. In peak reading A mode at 3 meters I get about 90dB (fluctuates between 89-91), in averaging C mode I get 80 dB. Readings were with no load from the front of the unit, positioning allow echoes that could throw off reading, also this was done 50 ft or so from a somewhat busy street with afternoon traffic, background with generator off reads around 65 dB).

Ike

That sounds about right. I'm a sound tech by trade.
"A" weighting emphasizes 3-6kHz frequencies because that is where human hearing is most sensitive. It neglects some of the lower frequencies.
Some frequencies are "harsher" than others. An 85dB tone at 3kHz might be more annoying than an 85dB tone at 300Hz, though both are technically the same level. You hear the 3kHz tone "better" so it may seem louder.

I use the C scale for work. 85dB C is loud enough that you can't have a comfortable conversation. 88dB is twice as loud as 85dB. Each 3dB increase represents a doubling of loudness.

Averaging compares readings over time and rounds them out.

Being a 3600RPM generator I would expect some 3.6kHz sound from it. 3.6kHz being in that 3-6kHz range that humans hear so well.

I may take some reading with my RTA some time.

 

[PeterD]

Derf, great comments... I've got a good sound meter as well, and perhaps next time I start my MEP-004 with ASK I'll measure it. The procedure for measuring sound level for my set is in the manual, so I'll do it that way. My biggest problem will be hoping that my meter's battery is not dead!

 

[ETN550]

Here is an update on my progress with my GL Mep-016B's I got. I call them #1 and #2. #1 got a full check out and prep before starting and it runs great. Pic shows it with a 4Kw resistive load.

#2 got the injector rebuilt and now runs great with no smoke. I am in the process of adjusting the governor linkage as the droop setting was all wrong. A governor spring was on backwards and rubbing on a linkage as well. Really got to look at these things to get them right. I now have it so the 4Kw step load drops a little more than 1 Hz and the unit hunts slowly about 1/2 Hz under load so I may have to re-adjust for more droop to stop the hunting. #2 also got a very thorough check out and prep. (fuel system cleanout, filters, oil, electrical controls check, aux pump cleanout, 24vdc charging sys check, terminal strip and switch screws checked and several tightened)

I made 12VDC battery trays for both. #1 was the first one and the trays were a little heavy so I made some changes and #2 has a slightly different design, both very similar.

Note how I retained the battery cutoff switch and put it between the two batteries. When it is disconnected the two batteries become separate and I can charge them with a 12vdc charger either separately or as a pair without disconnecting the battery leads from the battery terminals. The 280 CCA battery is better than the spec on the 24VDC 4HN but I suspect the 4HN might be a little more durable. We will see. The lawn and garden batteries are $31.00 each so I will save money the next time around and can maintain them with the 12VDC battery tender. These batteries were mid line. I could have went as low as 180CCA and $27.00 or up to 340CCA or so for $45.00.

No mods or drilling to the generator frame or base were made so the original 4HN tray can go right back in if desired. No mods to the cables either. The original lengths and lugs worked fine and the slave is hooked up too. #1 got a custom jumper cable made from #2 welding lead and #2 uses a standard 12 inch jumper which is a little long but works ok.

I'm probably going to end up selling one and try making a high quality removable sound enclosure for the other. Still not done playing with them and load testing, though!

P.S. The motorcycle lift has a 350lb capacity but has no issues lifting these full fuel and batteries and all. Very easy to work on standing up and being able to adjust the height whether on top or on the sides of the unit. I'm finding these sets to be easy to access everyting and work on and super great quality of components and construction. I'm getting hooked on this military stuff!!

 

[Smallblockfuelie]

ETN, have you ever considered making a few videos of the 016's and 701s for YouTube?

 

[ETN550]

yeah if I get a video camera! I have a Go Pro which could take time lapse in the shop. I thought it would be neat to see a teardown and rebuild. The one problem with the older style go pro is that there is no way to see what it is pointed at as the picture is being taken. It's great for action and even underwater but its not made for regular videos. maybe in the future.

 

[leedawg]

If you get the backpack for it with the screen you can see what its looking at, or if you get the wifi backpack for it you can see what it is looking at on your phone..

I need to get working on my 701a. I hooked up jumper cables to it and the thing is dead no power to anything so Ive got to tear the side panels off of it and trace down the battery leads and see why there is zero power at the panel.

Step one for me then after I get the starting circuit working and the solenoid to go im going to have to start tracking down the fuel system and clean all that out and then cross my fingers that it will start up and run okay. From what you were saying timing the injection pump on this thing sounds like a huge pain in the A!@. So really hoping mine is okay and I do not have to pull it off the unit. Any way will post back more when I start working on it some hopefully this weekend but I dunno.

 

[ETN550]

If you get the backpack for it with the screen you can see what its looking at, or if you get the wifi backpack for it you can see what it is looking at on your phone..

I need to get working on my 701a. I hooked up jumper cables to it and the thing is dead no power to anything so Ive got to tear the side panels off of it and trace down the battery leads and see why there is zero power at the panel.

Step one for me then after I get the starting circuit working and the solenoid to go im going to have to start tracking down the fuel system and clean all that out and then cross my fingers that it will start up and run okay. From what you were saying timing the injection pump on this thing sounds like a huge pain in the A!@. So really hoping mine is okay and I do not have to pull it off the unit. Any way will post back more when I start working on it some hopefully this weekend but I dunno.

I'll check into that backpack option.