Sunday winching gone wrong...

[jimk]

Difference between high speed and low speed driveshaft.

My Braden LU2 spec sheet states the max input speed is 500rpm. I'd guess the std operating speed at about half that. If that's so a 250rpm shaft turns only 4.166 times a second. For a comparison, my stock 40+ year old GTO's driveshaft is turning 5700rpm at 145mph (same as redline in 3rd gear as the trans is 1:1). That works out to 95 times a second. It is also transmitting over 650HP (when on N2o).

p.s. Image below is .pdf.

p.s.s Another comparison useful to grasp the effect that high speed shafts have - The sheet has the LU2's static input torque is 1690in*lbs at rated load (140.8 ft*lbs) . Since HP=T x rpm/5252 the LU2 driveshaft transmits .22HP at max load and max input speed.

(compare that to the 650+hp/700+ lb*ft of the Goat).

p.p.p.s -.22HP - explains why the MV engine rpm stays about the same (when load picks up), even at the incredibly low HP the engine makes at idle.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Spicergear, bet your extensions make the stops almost the exact length of those on Squirt. Mine are OEM also, they are square headed, coarse thread, with jam nuts on both sides of the winder frame.
DH, check the dimensions on your stops, and let us know.

Still wish we could locate a "formal" document that gives the adjustment procedure. The dynamics of the level wind and how it lays the rope is what we adjust to and have never had a single issue with reversal.

 

[rlwm211]

I would guess that there is a correlation between the standard pto speed of 540 that is prevalent on agricultural equipment and the pto speed of the power take off of the 818. With that in mind you would figure that the rpm would be set to take advantage of the torque of the engine as you can never take all the horsepower at the pto due to limitations of the transmission or transfer case depending on the circumstance.

JimK's observations and specs all make sense in that light. I also know that most pto shafts on ag equipment are not all that balanced and that they seem to work just fine at the low rpms that they operate at: i.e. 540 RPM = 9 revolutions per second.

The most critical aspect of the pto drivetrain is the shear pin as most pto driveshafts are solid square or round stock and are far stronger than the shear pin would be.

How thick the wall of the tubing of a replacement driveshaft is not all that significant as long as it is strong enough.

Just some thoughts.....

RL

 

[doghead]

Spicergear, bet your extensions make the stops almost the exact length of those on Squirt. Mine are OEM also, they are square headed, coarse thread, with jam nuts on both sides of the winder frame.
DH, check the dimensions on your stops, and let us know.

Still wish we could locate a "formal" document that gives the adjustment procedure. The dynamics of the level wind and how it lays the rope is what we adjust to and have never had a single issue with reversal.

I just went out and measured mine. They are both 1.625" high.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Those should work just fine, with a properly running rope. (Just had to say it.....sorry.)

 

[doghead]

No need to apoligise. The older I get, the more reminders I need.

BTW, Amy brought the new drive shaft home tonight. I still need the new end that I ordered.

I cut a piece of the old shaft and it was .083" wall thickness.

My new shaft is supposed to be .120"

This, was on the invoice,

*note* NO WARRANTY SHAFT LENGTH AN ISSUE
80" E-E 64-7/8" W-W 2" Tubing
1310 PTO SHAFT RETUBE TO 80" END/HUB-END/HUB

Total was $215, plus I have the new end coming ($30).

 

[jimk]

I'm hoping you got your length right. I drew up plans for mine without any sample or input. If my the tube was even a 1/8" longer it would not have installed. Thanks for the thread and mentioning the $$ in the last post. I was used to getting rebuilt shafs for less than $100. I had thought my 200+ was high (which it is not).

My late pal Dave mention he folded a tensioner because he had it set to high from the get-go. I have also read here that another member had wrecked a cable by using too much tension while operating it. He crushed the cable to the point it was no longer twisted/round. Also I learned to keep a cover over winch and hardware whenever parked and rain is expected. The first year I did not and the trolley wheels got very tight.

 

[doghead]

No real progress today other than, I cleaned off the floor hump and repainted it solid OD green.

I may paint my own indications on the floor later, but for now I'll stick with confirming lever position by looking at the lock-out notch, and the dash data plate.

 

[LanceRobson]

I have a copy of TM 9-8617 (May 1955) WINCHES, POWER-TAKEOFFS, POWER DIVIDER AND HYDRAULIC EQUIPMENT

I have to get you a deuce cargo cover for clintogf so I can lend it to you then. If you need it for a while that's fine.

It has the info on the rebuild etc for the tensioner and level wind. You are looking for the section on "A line" winches that starts on page 240.

Lance

 

[73m819]

I have a copy of TM 9-8617 (May 1955) WINCHES, POWER-TAKEOFFS, POWER DIVIDER AND HYDRAULIC EQUIPMENT

I have to get you a deuce cargo cover for clintogf so I can lend it to you then. If you need it for a while that's fine.

It has the info on the rebuild etc for the tensioner and level wind. You are looking for the section on "A line" winches that starts on page 240.

Lance

any chance of getting a PDF copy of this

 

[jimk]

9-3830-501 - Might be similar.

 

[jimk]

9-3830-206-34P -parts

 

[73m819]

I have a copy of TM 9-8617 (May 1955) WINCHES, POWER-TAKEOFFS, POWER DIVIDER AND HYDRAULIC EQUIPMENT

I have to get you a deuce cargo cover for clintogf so I can lend it to you then. If you need it for a while that's fine.

It has the info on the rebuild etc for the tensioner and level wind. You are looking for the section on "A line" winches that starts on page 240.

Lance

I looked everywhare that I could, no luck, even Google which brought me BACK to SS

 

[LanceRobson]

JimK's post is more detailed than what TM 9-8617 shows. That said, I'll be in NC next week and after I get back I could see what it will take to make a searchable PDF of the manual. They as about as scarce as hen's teeth and this is one of the two cleanest copies I've ever seen. It would almost certainly damage the binding and stitching to scan it but I'd be willing to "take one for the team" since they are so hard to find and it covers so many families of winches.

Lance

 

[73m819]

Thank you

 

[rlwm211]

Lance, if it is agreeable to you, I am sure the webmaster for JATONKA would be glad to put that manual on the site. Let me know...
RL

 

[LanceRobson]

Lance, if it is agreeable to you, I am sure the webmaster for JATONKA would be glad to put that manual on the site. Let me know...
RL

Not a problem. I could get it JT after dh is done with it.

I need to get back to JT about what MKT related stuff is laying around the buildings anyway.

Lance

 

[doghead]

Just get it to JT and I'll read it off his site(save it from there.

 

[rlwm211]

Both the winch repair manual for the deuce and also the one for the 5 tons 54-800-939 are up on Jatonkas's site

TM 9-3830-501 Gar Wood 20 and 45 ton with level winder
TM 9-3830-206-34P for the M35 front and rear winches with level winders

Thanks to JimK for having the 501 TM which is a very hard to find manual.

RL

 

[spicergear]

ALL, sorry for the delay in getting the pics...life happens now and then.

Anyway, here are several pics of the longer stops I made for my levelwind set up. 1" aluminum round stock, 1-3/4" long with the back drilled and tapped for 3/8-16. They stop the trolley about a cable thickness away from the spool so that last wind goes against the side of the spool then starts back across again. My factory stops were very short as you can see in the first pic. Again, my winch was in virtual unused condtion and the level wind had never had cable spooled over it.