Electrical Outlet Box

[quickfarms]

You have made a good point about the wire colors.

Black wires are common for wiring stuff with larger than 12 gauge and we just hest shrink or tape the ends the correct color to pass inspection and for our own identification.

I have also worked on equipment in which every wire is white whith the id printed on it.

If the generator is not used for fighting fire how does the NFPA apply?

 

[Keith_J]

That wiring in the box is exempt. Equipment wiring, not installed wiring.

Now mount it to a wall and you might have an issue. As I see its utility, it is for portable power.

Funny how ALL the wiring in MEPs is white, only identified by code. That isn't in line with the NEC or NFPA rules. Generators are like that box, EQUIPMENT.

 

[AN/ARC186]

Actually, since the box is being used for a distribution application it does fall under the NEC.

Internal wiring on gensets does not fall under the NEC however portable cabling and devices connected to them does. (things like cords, adapters, etc)

34 years as an Electrician as well as 10 years as an Electrical Inspector makes me stand by what I said in the first post.

Feel free to do whatever you want, however you want, I just pointed out a few safety and code concerns.

 

[ETN550]

Actually, since the box is being used for a distribution application it does fall under the NEC.

Internal wiring on gensets does not fall under the NEC however portable cabling and devices connected to them does. (things like cords, adapters, etc)

34 years as an Electrician as well as 10 years as an Electrical Inspector makes me stand by what I said in the first post.

Feel free to do whatever you want, however you want, I just pointed out a few safety and code concerns.

I don't have the latest code so let me ask can I use green colored tape on the wire ends and be okay? I think this was okay in the past, say around 1993. I do have green jacketed THHN I could use. I just used scrap wire laying around as opposed to cutting a fresh length off of the spool. Ground safety is not compromised as only the color is incorrect. It's ironic that red/green is the most common form of colorblindness!

Another issue no one mentioned is that I do not have 20A breakers for the 120VAC 20A outlets in the box so the 20A outlets, and the 30A RV outlet are protected by the generator's 50A breakers. Also don't have a 20A breaker for the 240VAC 20A outlet. I know this is a bigger issue safety wise then the wire color. I also know my loads so this is how I'm proceeding at this time. The box is big and it is that way so things can be changed as needed.

And, finally, here is a big concern that I had. I just decided to go ahead and combine the 240 and 120 into one box. The box is designed so that only one side of outlets on the box is used depending on the generator reconnection switch position. However, both sides are always live. (But only the side that corresponds to the reconnection switch has the correct voltage) This was a compromise to make one box does all. I am now thinking of a more modular approach making a separate box for each reconnection switch position. The more I think about it the greater the chances are that I am going to change it into two separate boxes. To be totally correct, code compliant, and failsafe I need a 3 pin 30A twistlock for the 120 side and a 4 pin 20A or 30A twistlock for the 240 side. Then separate 120 and 240 pigtails on the gen, only connecting one pigtail at a time to the load terminals. Then separate 120 and 240 cords. Whew... Not going to happen today!

 

[PeterD]

And, finally, here is a big concern that I had. I just decided to go ahead and combine the 240 and 120 into one box. The box is designed so that only one side of outlets on the box is used depending on the generator reconnection switch position. However, both sides are always live....

If you have 120 volt outlets that under some circumstances have 240 volts on them, then you have an extremely hazardous configuration. I would strongly recommend you not use such a configuration, someone will, absolutely and positively, connect something to the 120 outlet assuming it is 120 volts, and given the 'right' circumstances could be injured or killed.

There are ways you could make the box intelligent and have it disable the 'wrong' outlets, but it isn't worth the trouble.

 

[AN/ARC186]

I don't have the latest code so let me ask can I use green colored tape on the wire ends and be okay? I think this was okay in the past, say around 1993. I do have green jacketed THHN I could use. I just used scrap wire laying around as opposed to cutting a fresh length off of the spool. Ground safety is not compromised as only the color is incorrect. It's ironic that red/green is the most common form of colorblindness!

Another issue no one mentioned is that I do not have 20A breakers for the 120VAC 20A outlets in the box so the 20A outlets, and the 30A RV outlet are protected by the generator's 50A breakers. Also don't have a 20A breaker for the 240VAC 20A outlet. I know this is a bigger issue safety wise then the wire color. I also know my loads so this is how I'm proceeding at this time. The box is big and it is that way so things can be changed as needed.

And, finally, here is a big concern that I had. I just decided to go ahead and combine the 240 and 120 into one box. The box is designed so that only one side of outlets on the box is used depending on the generator reconnection switch position. However, both sides are always live. (But only the side that corresponds to the reconnection switch has the correct voltage) This was a compromise to make one box does all. I am now thinking of a more modular approach making a separate box for each reconnection switch position. The more I think about it the greater the chances are that I am going to change it into two separate boxes. To be totally correct, code compliant, and failsafe I need a 3 pin 30A twistlock for the 120 side and a 4 pin 20A or 30A twistlock for the 240 side. Then separate 120 and 240 pigtails on the gen, only connecting one pigtail at a time to the load terminals. Then separate 120 and 240 cords. Whew... Not going to happen today!

Trace taping is not permitted for this gauge wire, it has to have the properly colored jacket,

The minimum wire gauge for portable cords for a 50 amp supply is 6 gauge.
the thhn in your box appears to be 12 gauge and you stated the connecting cord is 10 gauge. the cord needs to be changed out and some type of overcurrent or current limiting device needs to be installed for the 30 and 20 amp outlets.

if you want a simple solution, buy a NEMA 3R (weatherproof) 75 amp main lug breaker panel, they cost about $15.00 . install the proper sized breaker and connectors for your use. this will ensure properly sized protection for each connection.

I've built several of these for generator use and would be happy to provide a diagram.

 

[ETN550]

Trace taping is not permitted for this gauge wire, it has to have the properly colored jacket,

The minimum wire gauge for portable cords for a 50 amp supply is 6 gauge.
the thhn in your box appears to be 12 gauge and you stated the connecting cord is 10 gauge. the cord needs to be changed out and some type of overcurrent or current limiting device needs to be installed for the 30 and 20 amp outlets.

if you want a simple solution, buy a NEMA 3R (weatherproof) 75 amp main lug breaker panel, they cost about $15.00 . install the proper sized breaker and connectors for your use. this will ensure properly sized protection for each connection.

I've built several of these for generator use and would be happy to provide a diagram.

I'll take you up on the diagram. The box wiring is currently 10Ga all the way in the photos. I'm going to split out the 120 and 240 into two boxes. I will likely keep the existing box for one or the other and buy or make a second box. The gen rating is 30 amps in 120vac single phase and 15 in 240vac single phase. the panel breaker is a special 3phase breaker with 50/50/30 trip points, with L3 being 30. No need for 6ga wire to match the 50A when the load or distance will never demand the 6ga. So your point about separate output breaker for 30 to match the 10ga cord is the way to go. This box I made was my first shot at it and I tried to make it do too much at once. Separate boxes for 120 and 240 will be better with 3x 30a and 4x 30a 10ga cords and twistlock plug on the box. That way if the box is ever separated from the generator and used with a corresponding twistlock cord the box will be to code and safe.