Brake line problem - HELP!

[Awesome Possum]

We'e almost finished with our Bob, but I've had to replace thwe hydraulic brake line that runs along the left side of the frame. When bloting this to the tee fitting just under the rear of the cab (left side) I tried to remove one of the other brake lines. I did use the special wrenches for the job, but still managed to strip the hex off the outside of the nut. I don't want to use something like a vise grip that would crush the nut. Any suggestions as to how to get it off while still being able to use the line? The line disappears into a dark hole which I don't have the dexterity or eyesight to follow in order to replace.

Any help would be appreciated here, including the offending tee and possibly someone in the area of Ft Hood who'd be willing to do the job right for a price. Ths SS Rally in College Station is in two weeks and Badga has been really looking forward to it.

 

[dozer1]

I know you said no vise grip, but these are designed for this. I have all 3 sizes, great tool

 

[Awesome Possum]

I know you said no vise grip, but these are designed for this. I have all 3 sizes, great tool

Never seen these before. Do you know who sells them and what they're called. Hate to have to describe these over the phone!

 

[Tow4]

You can use a crescent wrench and wriggle it to tighten the jaw down on the fitting. I had to do that to replace the rubber brake lines on my deuce. The flare wrench just started to round the brake line fitting.

 

[dozer1]

Ita a Vise-Grip locking wrench. The 3 models are 4LW, 7LW, and 10LW. Here is a link for one of them on Amazon.com . http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=vise%20grip%20wrench&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CKEBEBYwCQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FVise-Grip-4LW-Locking-Wrench-Cutter%2Fdp%2FB00004SBBE&ei=tpe4Tuf1KKmLsgLIn4S-CA&usg=AFQjCNHQHfqsA28hO2qBpBRralYaoSBSsw Not sure were you could get them locally. Maybe napa could order them

 

[plym49]

Here is how you can get it open with what you have on hand.

Heat the T fitting with a propane torch in the area where the threads of the stripped nut screws in. Since there is probably brake fluid in the line, open one of the other fittings at the T first so that you do not boil the fluid in a closed system. Once the area is nice and hot, touch a beeswax candle to the threads. The wax will melt and get sucked right in. Now, using another wrench to hold the T, use regular vise grips to break te nut free. It will come out easy as pie. Now cut off the flare and use a double flaring tool to add a new nut to the line. There will be enough slack to reuse the line if you don't get too happy snipping too much off. Flush the lines and fitting well with brake cleaner. Reassemble and done.

 

[Keith_J]

Yes, heat. Worked on mkcoen's M37 rear brake line. The hose was rotten yet with heat, it broke free.

 

[Awesome Possum]

OK, got the brake line problem solved (hired a mechanic I knew), but now we have a new problem. The brakes will not pump up. It's been bled 3-4 times per wheel, the air built up, 33 ounces of DOT 5 put in the system. There are no leaks that can be seen. My help did speak with my local deuce dealer and he said ti crimp off a line that had something to do with adding a fording kit. Still nothing.

Brakes were working when the truck was taken apart. The brake lines were switched from in front of the back axle to behind the axle. The doodads (yeah, I don't know exactly what they're called) shown in the picture were loosened on both sides and were rotated 180 degrees to faces backwards for the swapped brake lines. Other than these things we don't know of anything different that would be allowing the brake pedal to hit the floor.

Would anyone who's knowledgable in this be willing to talk to my guy on the phone this weekend in order to trouble shoot this? The SS rally is next weekend and I don't want to let Badga down. PM me if you can help and when.

 

[Katahdin]

You mentioned bleeding the wheels, but did you bleed the air pack first?

 

[doghead]

Brake bleeding is covered in Tm 9-2320-362-20.

It is written in such a simple manor, anyone with hands and can read, can follow the instructions.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You mentioned bleeding the wheels, but did you bleed the air pack first?

Love your icon! The problem is that I, myself, am not doing this. I'm merely assisting within my abilities ("OK, pump the pedal and hold it down.") I have an aquaintance who is doing the work. I also have a bad arm injury that keeps me from going under the truck (not to mention a near complete lack of knowledge when it somes to things covered in grease.) He was very competent in getting the brake line junction fixed, and while he's in the Army, he has not worked on these particular trucks before.

I think I've heard of an air pack before, but you could hit me with it and I still wouldn't be able to ID it. I need to be able to get someone to talk to him directly when we're at the truck. This would be sometime this weekend, not sure of his schedule.

 

[cornrichard]

Look up some posts on power bleeders. They make the job easy and you can make one yourself. A cheap pump sprayer and a barb fitting for the master cylinder cap will put you right as rain.

 

[doghead]

You could just read the TM to him.

If you can't identify your airpack, you should not be driving your truck. It needs regular service, as well as many many things mentioned in the TMs.


I recommend you educate yourself and your friend or find an educated/skilled mechanic. Brakes are not the place to learn mechanical skills.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You could just read the TM to him.

If you can't identify your airpack, you should not be driving your truck. It needs regular service, as well as many many things mentioned in the TMs.


I recommend you educate yourself and your friend or find an educated/skilled mechanic. Brakes are not the place to learn mechanical skills.

What is your problem? Are you trying to promote the hobby, or to discourage others who are not up to your particular level of expertise? Do you even care? Anyone with a lifetime of professional mechanical experience, a shop full of tools, and maybe a 20 ton crane can do a bobber, but how about a guy and his boy doing a father/son project using power tools, some bottle jacks, and a Harbor Freight crane?
I KNOW THAT BRAKES ARE NOT A PLACE TO LEARN MECHANICAL SKILLS! That is why I am asking for help, not merely for the book and page number of the tech manual. I'm getting a bit stressed here, being so close to finishing this project, that I reached out for a little bit of extra help to get this done. If you don't want to help, then don't.
I thought this was a forum for people to help each other, not a place for those in exalted positions to chastise those who don't measure up.

 

[doghead]

Honestly, the TM instructions are so simple and thorough, I guarantee you cannot and will not get as good of information here in a forum, as you can get by reading the simple step by step instructions.

And no, I am not trying to promote the MV hobby in this thread. I am trying to promote arming yourself with all of the correct information so you can solve your problem correctly.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Honestly, the TM instructions are so simple and thorough, I guarantee you cannot and will not get as good of information here in a forum, as you can get by reading the simple step by step instructions.

And no, I am not trying to promote the MV hobby in this thread. I am trying to promote arming yourself with all of the correct information.

The problem is that I don't think it is simply a matter of doing the brake bleed (though it could certainly be simply that). It's more of a troubleshooting thing that I thought someone might be willing to help with, (though I've received no PM's as of yet.)

You wrote "I recommend you educate yourself and your friend or find an educated/skilled mechanic." It is this advice that I'm following, and it is good advice. It's just not locally available advice. With that I'l just see whether anyone will help out.

 

[doghead]

Back to the TM, it is very important that you bleed the system in a certain procedure. The Tm does that, it tells you the procedure. Since you didn't know where your airpack is, it seems logical to say you have not bleed your system in the correct procedure(it's the first thing you bleed).

 

[plym49]

AP, let's take it by the numbers. If in fact your Deuce had brakes before you opened the lines, and in fact that is the only thing you did, then the problem is likely something you touched OR something not working properly as a result of what you did.

33 ounces is a lot to just disappear. Did it? Can you confirm that there is not fluid in the master? What happened when you filled it?

Proper procedure would be to fill the master completely, and then bleed it. And to refill as you went so that you do not reintroduce air. Is this what you did?

The air pack is kind of behind the master. You can lodcate the master, correct? easist way is to get under the truck and to watch what moves when you depress the brake pedal. Now, coming out of the master is a kinda short steel line that goes to another master-looking thing. When you depress the brakes, this thing will make an air sound. This is the air pack. If I am not mistaken, you want to bleed from the master to the airpack first. There is a bleeder right at the air pack.

I completely agree that you should download the TM and read it. But at the same time, this is a simple single circuit hydraulic brake system just like most others. Except it is bigger and the air pack in the line works off positive pressure as opposed to the Hydrovac-type boosters that worked off vacuum (think mid-50s GM cars and Jaguars).

So anyone who understand the concepts of a hydraulic brake system can work on this and troubleshoot it and figure it out. If you friend is uncertain, and no offense meant, then find someone else locally who can chime in. A telephone consultation might work but sometimes there is no substitute for eyes right there looking at it.

I am sure that no offense was meant by anyone on this thread. You must admit it is kind of scary to think f a 13,000 lb vehicle with faulty brakes. hence a high level of caution in general. Don't take it personally, we all had to earn our bones and now is your turn. That is meant in a good way.

 

[dilligaf13]

"Brakes were working when the truck was taken apart. The brake lines were switched from in front of the back axle to behind the axle. The doodads (yeah, I don't know exactly what they're called) shown in the picture were loosened on both sides and were rotated 180 degrees to faces backwards for the swapped brake lines. Other than these things we don't know of anything different that would be allowing the brake pedal to hit the floor."


I guess I'm just a little ahead of you on my bob project. I switched my brake lines to the rear of the axles also. Flipping the banjo bolts (doodads) over 180 degrees don't make a difference. I can almost guarantee you have air in the lines. A slow fluid leak in the lines would give you a hard pedal at first if they were properly bled and then grow softer as you lost fluid. A large leak could give you instantaneous soft brakes but should be visible. Check for fluid running the lenght of the frame. I had a rear line leak and it ran almost all the way to the front axle and dripped slowly. Recovery4X4 was kind enough to lend me his power brake bleeder. It was a huge help and I'm building my own as we speak. Cost about $25, made bleeding super easy, took about 30 minutes, and I was able to do it by myself. Keep us posted. Like I said my money is on air in the lines and your options are manually bleed it out or power bleed it out.

 

[plym49]

Also, DOT5 fluid likes to entrain air - millions of tiny bubbles you cannot see. They can make it difficult to bleed a system as you wonder why you can never get a pedal. Let everything sit overnight and never ever shake a can of DOT 5 fluid.