Hello all, I am going to wire my duece to have a 12 volt system with a 24 volt starter. I have figured out how to do this with 1 no solinoid and 2 nc solinoids. Does anybody know how a series parallel switch is wired"scematic"? I think these were used on old petes that had a 12 volt system with a 24 volt starter. So far i can't find a scematic on one. Thanks Albion
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12 volt system with 24 volt starter
- Thread starter albion
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mangus580
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Can I ask what in tarnation for??
rizzo
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I think you can get a 12v starter for 120-150 bucks
I think you need to take a few more Prozac and then reconsider what you are doing. Other than the cost of 24V bulbs, the 24 volt system has worked quite well for nearly 60 years. Why f**k with something which doesn't need fixing? A little more explanation is needed here before you can expect a rational response.
Trango
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On the flip side, I run a 12v starter in a 24v system. 
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without regard to making judgements about it, I would like to make the technical comment that for the same power (headlamp wattage etc) the 12V electical load will be twice the current in Amperes as the 24V load was. This would be hard on various wires and switches, doubling the current through them.
There is a schematic here at the bottom of the page to use a battery equalizer to operate up to 50 amps of 12VDC accessories such as lights etc from a 24V source, and another schematic showing how to put two batteries in series or parallel by energizing a DPDT contactor. The contactor would have to be quite large to turn over the starter. It would be simple to change the 'sense' or 'state' of the circut so that the normal state is 12VDC and the 'energized' state is 24V.
Note that a battery equalizer should be disconnected when not in use because it draws a small amoutn of current. A contactor can do this very well as shown in the schematic.
Hope this helps.
http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/mil/m35/vic4/index.html
There is a schematic here at the bottom of the page to use a battery equalizer to operate up to 50 amps of 12VDC accessories such as lights etc from a 24V source, and another schematic showing how to put two batteries in series or parallel by energizing a DPDT contactor. The contactor would have to be quite large to turn over the starter. It would be simple to change the 'sense' or 'state' of the circut so that the normal state is 12VDC and the 'energized' state is 24V.
Note that a battery equalizer should be disconnected when not in use because it draws a small amoutn of current. A contactor can do this very well as shown in the schematic.
Hope this helps.
http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/mil/m35/vic4/index.html
Why bother? The military 24V system has worked fine for 57+ years. Why F**k with something that doesn't need to be F****d with? The civvy world was fine with 6V systems for some 60 or so years. Then some bright light bulb turned them on to 12V systems (several years AFTER the military world converted to 24V systems by the way.) The 12 V system has ruled the civvy world for 50+ years now. Now the civvies are THINKING about 36V-48V electrical systems.Don't hold your breath though.
IMHO, the military is way ahead of the civvies, at least as far as designed system voltage is concerned. Don't know why, I just guess some mid level officer some 60 years ago had a lucky guess and made it stick!
IMHO, the military is way ahead of the civvies, at least as far as designed system voltage is concerned. Don't know why, I just guess some mid level officer some 60 years ago had a lucky guess and made it stick!
cjbrunner
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In terms of voltage and amperage, 24v is more effecient. In terms of parts cost and availability the parts are not generally available for items outside of the military or commercial world. Vehicles like fork lifts, skid steers, large trucks, and excavators all run on 24v because of the amperages required to turn the starters; in addition to how 24v systems are more resistant to corrosion and other contact issues due to the higher voltages.
Aeroplanes are higher voltages, 36 and 48v - either cars will get to that point, or they will just be replaced entirely with hybrid/high voltage.
Aeroplanes are higher voltages, 36 and 48v - either cars will get to that point, or they will just be replaced entirely with hybrid/high voltage.
acetomatoco
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Too each his own.. Oshkosh used series parallel switches in the snofiters for years.. The WWII 6 tons used 6/12 and I even had one in my CJ2A .. bought it at JC Whitney about 1966.. Mounted a second 6 volt battery in a marine box on the front bumper... sure cranked over fast... used the 6 v starter for years with no trouble... go for it.. good learning experience.. ACE
LOL, yea i should of elaborated on why i want to do this. The reason for me to use a 24 volt starter and 12 volt system is because my duece came with no alternator and no switches whatsoever they had all been removed. I am lucky to have many free commercial truck parts so the 12 volt alt ,ign switch,light bulbs and so on cost me nothing or close to it, and keeping the truck all "original" means nothing to me, it is for work on my property.I did not know if they made a 12volt starter or not ,or the cost, anybody got a part #? Opcom, thanks for the link. Hopefully this explanation will show you i'm not crazy just wanting to get my truck operational for the least amount posible using good used parts that i already have, thanks all. Albion
Albion - I apologize for the somewhat abusive reply, but I did not understand your intent from the original post. 12V starters ARE apparently available as mentioned in the above post, so you could either go with either a 12 v or 24 v starter. Just remember as mentioned above, all your 12 accessories are going to draw twice the amperage of their original 24V components. If you original wiring system is reasonably intact, it may be more cost effective to get the missing 24V switches and keep your system at 24V.
For example, most all of the electrical connections are routed through the three way headlamp switch, about 12 connections in all. Trying to rewire all that will be a bear to convert, not to mention what do you do about your 24V in tank fuel pump, flame heater, air horn solenoid, gauges, personnel heater motor, gauge lamps, front axle switch, low air pressure switch and buzzer and many other unmentioned other 24 V components?
I replaced my "ignition switch" technically, called the accessory switch, with an aftermarket ignition switch from my local parts store. Cost about $12, has off-on-accy-start positions, so you don't even need a starter switch, although I do have a stater switch and jumpered the two together so I can engage the starter with either the ignition switch or starter switch. All it took was a little work with the Dremel tool to convert the original round hole to a "D" hole ans a few bullet connectors and I was in business.
Replacement 60 amp 24V alternators aren't all that expensive, probably cheaper than a new 120 amp 12V alternator, in fact I have two spares on hand which I can have tested and sell you one if need be. As I stated above, if your wiring harness is reasonably complete, it should be far cheaper and much less labor intensive to buy the missing 24V components and keep your system at 24V than to convert everything over to 12V.
Exactly what 24V components are you missing? Someone here on the list will have all the pieces you are missing, and at prices much less than you need to pay for new parts. All you have to do is post the parts you need, someone will have whatever you need. I am sure you can keep your truck intact with its 24V system at less cost and a lot less effort than trying to convert it to 12V!
For example, most all of the electrical connections are routed through the three way headlamp switch, about 12 connections in all. Trying to rewire all that will be a bear to convert, not to mention what do you do about your 24V in tank fuel pump, flame heater, air horn solenoid, gauges, personnel heater motor, gauge lamps, front axle switch, low air pressure switch and buzzer and many other unmentioned other 24 V components?
I replaced my "ignition switch" technically, called the accessory switch, with an aftermarket ignition switch from my local parts store. Cost about $12, has off-on-accy-start positions, so you don't even need a starter switch, although I do have a stater switch and jumpered the two together so I can engage the starter with either the ignition switch or starter switch. All it took was a little work with the Dremel tool to convert the original round hole to a "D" hole ans a few bullet connectors and I was in business.
Replacement 60 amp 24V alternators aren't all that expensive, probably cheaper than a new 120 amp 12V alternator, in fact I have two spares on hand which I can have tested and sell you one if need be. As I stated above, if your wiring harness is reasonably complete, it should be far cheaper and much less labor intensive to buy the missing 24V components and keep your system at 24V than to convert everything over to 12V.
Exactly what 24V components are you missing? Someone here on the list will have all the pieces you are missing, and at prices much less than you need to pay for new parts. All you have to do is post the parts you need, someone will have whatever you need. I am sure you can keep your truck intact with its 24V system at less cost and a lot less effort than trying to convert it to 12V!
Albion - I apologize for the somewhat abusive reply, but I did not understand your intent from the original post. 12V starters ARE apparently available as mentioned in the above post, so you could either go with either a 12 v or 24 v starter. Just remember as mentioned above, all your 12 accessories are going to draw twice the amperage of their original 24V components. If you original wiring system is reasonably intact, it may be more cost effective to get the missing 24V switches and keep your system at 24V.
For example, most all of the electrical connections are routed through the three way headlamp switch, about 12 connections in all. Trying to rewire all that will be a bear to convert, not to mention what do you do about your 24V in tank fuel pump, flame heater, air horn solenoid, gauges, personnel heater motor, gauge lamps, front axle switch, low air pressure switch and buzzer and many other unmentioned other 24 V components?
I replaced my "ignition switch" technically, called the accessory switch, with an aftermarket ignition switch from my local parts store. Cost about $12, has off-on-accy-start positions, so you don't even need a starter switch, although I do have a stater switch and jumpered the two together so I can engage the starter with either the ignition switch or starter switch. All it took was a little work with the Dremel tool to convert the original round hole to a "D" hole and a few bullet connectors and I was in business.
Replacement 60 amp 24V alternators aren't all that expensive, probably cheaper than a new 120 amp 12V alternator, in fact I have two spares on hand which I can have tested and sell you one if need be. As I stated above, if your wiring harness is reasonably complete, it should be far cheaper and much less labor intensive to buy the missing 24V components and keep your system at 24V than to convert everything over to 12V.
Exactly what 24V components are you missing? Someone here on the list will have all the pieces you are missing, and at prices much less than you need to pay for new parts. All you have to do is post the parts you need, someone will have whatever you need. I am sure you can keep your truck intact with its 24V system at less cost and a lot less effort than trying to convert it to 12V!
For example, most all of the electrical connections are routed through the three way headlamp switch, about 12 connections in all. Trying to rewire all that will be a bear to convert, not to mention what do you do about your 24V in tank fuel pump, flame heater, air horn solenoid, gauges, personnel heater motor, gauge lamps, front axle switch, low air pressure switch and buzzer and many other unmentioned other 24 V components?
I replaced my "ignition switch" technically, called the accessory switch, with an aftermarket ignition switch from my local parts store. Cost about $12, has off-on-accy-start positions, so you don't even need a starter switch, although I do have a stater switch and jumpered the two together so I can engage the starter with either the ignition switch or starter switch. All it took was a little work with the Dremel tool to convert the original round hole to a "D" hole and a few bullet connectors and I was in business.
Replacement 60 amp 24V alternators aren't all that expensive, probably cheaper than a new 120 amp 12V alternator, in fact I have two spares on hand which I can have tested and sell you one if need be. As I stated above, if your wiring harness is reasonably complete, it should be far cheaper and much less labor intensive to buy the missing 24V components and keep your system at 24V than to convert everything over to 12V.
Exactly what 24V components are you missing? Someone here on the list will have all the pieces you are missing, and at prices much less than you need to pay for new parts. All you have to do is post the parts you need, someone will have whatever you need. I am sure you can keep your truck intact with its 24V system at less cost and a lot less effort than trying to convert it to 12V!
rdixiemiller
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Just post what pieces you need. I have a parts truck I am tearing down (no alternator, but most switches). I can probably make up most if not all of a gauge panel as well. We tend to help each other out around here, it is one of the symptoms of the disease (OD Fever).
devilman96
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It would be cheaper to go back with surplus 24V parts than it would to convert to 12V... Besides as mentioned the 12 will pull a snot load more amperage on it... These starters are bad enough as is with out adding that extra abuse to it.
SoldierwithaM109A3
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on a deuce half whats the part number for the starter i cant find one on mine at all ?
cause someone is asking me it to look up the right one . thank you
cause someone is asking me it to look up the right one . thank you