12v- 24v question

[devilman96]

Wow... I got a phone call about this thread pointing out exactly how bad it is... Geesh... Guys this isn't that hard!!!

Do NOT center tap a battery... dont... that plan and simple!!! CAN YOU? yes... Are you a mental midget for doing it... YES! Leave it alone PERIOD! Explination... batteries no worky no more... that simple!!!

Do NOT convert a deuce to 12V... Your opening a can of worms which you will pay for over and over. 12V pulls double the amperage. headlights, tail lights, etc are going to load the snot out of a already taxed system... Same for the starter... and mostly because the average person barely understand electrical as it is... Why "one off" yourself into a situation where no one can help you when you have issues!?!?

If you need 12V install a HUMVEE alternator in your truck... POOF... 12 and 24V... Wow that was hard right?

Use a inverter... again... not very difficult...

Add a 12V alternator to the truck... Challenging but again... not hard!

Yank the 6TL's out and drop 3 gel cells into the battery box, they fit prefectly... 2 for 24V and one for 12.

None of this stuff is hard to do... The subject has been beat to death in 100 different threads! Search, read, learn, ask questions, you will get answers but please stop passing out bad information and beating dead horses already!

 

[Recovry4x4]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[devilman96]

Instigator!!!

 

[CCATLETT1984]

Kenny and I have been known to do that

 

[gimpyrobb]

Mike, is your "aunt" in town?





BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Recovry4x4]

Don't blame me, I'm only the piano player!

 

[HeadWizard]

I have a hydraulic dump bed kit with a 12v pump and have been wondering how best to run the 12v pump on my deuce as well. I know ideally I should have a 24v pump, but I'd like to use what I have if possible. A separate battery that can be charged off the stock alternator would seem to be an easy way to prevent problems.

Headwizard - will your converter work for charging a separate battery that sees this sort of load?

Thanks,

Lance

I don't believe the unit is designed for battery charging, so I wouldn't use it that way.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I don't believe the unit is designed for battery charging, so I wouldn't use it that way.

Don, it is in the instructions. I can scan and post it if you want.

 

[HeadWizard]

Don, it is in the instructions. I can scan and post it if you want.

INSTRUCTIONS? What are they?

I normally just start hooking stuff up until it works......

And for those who have asked:

The Inverters are Newmar model 32-12-35. Details can be found at the Newmar web site:

http://www.newmarevpower.com/DC-DC_C...rd_Series.html

They list for over $700 and sometimes are available wholesale in the mid $500 range. These are NEW in the sealed factory box.

I’m offering them to SS members for (PM me) plus shipping ($15 flat rate) until this batch runs out. I have more in the pipeline, but they’ll probably be more.

Paypal is OK (address below) , as are checks and Money Orders.

Thanks-

Don
service@master-mechanic.com

 

[JasonS]

Wow... I got a phone call about this thread pointing out exactly how bad it is... Geesh... Guys this isn't that hard!!!

Do NOT center tap a battery... dont... that plan and simple!!! CAN YOU? yes... Are you a mental midget for doing it... YES! Leave it alone PERIOD! Explination... batteries no worky no more... that simple!!!

Do NOT convert a deuce to 12V... Your opening a can of worms which you will pay for over and over. 12V pulls double the amperage. headlights, tail lights, etc are going to load the snot out of a already taxed system... Same for the starter... and mostly because the average person barely understand electrical as it is... Why "one off" yourself into a situation where no one can help you when you have issues!?!?

If you need 12V install a HUMVEE alternator in your truck... POOF... 12 and 24V... Wow that was hard right?

Use a inverter... again... not very difficult...

Add a 12V alternator to the truck... Challenging but again... not hard!

Yank the 6TL's out and drop 3 gel cells into the battery box, they fit prefectly... 2 for 24V and one for 12.

None of this stuff is hard to do... The subject has been beat to death in 100 different threads! Search, read, learn, ask questions, you will get answers but please stop passing out bad information and beating dead horses already!

I don't agree that the existing 24V system is "taxed". You need to take a look under the hood of a Dodge p/u to see a "taxed" system. Tiny little wires.

 

[muddog]

Could you pm. me with a price if you have any converters left.
Thanks Harold

 

[CCATLETT1984]

The charging system is in parallel with the series wired batteries. Voltage is constant in a parallel circuit. How can one leg of a parallel circuit ever exceed the supply voltage. Lets assume for sake of math the charging system charges @ 24 volts, it would be impossible for the two series wired batteries to ever exceed that. In your case, are you saying in theory that you really have a 27.1 volt battery when charging a battery system that has had it's center tap used? I am just trying to understand, not challenge. Can you go a little deeper to help me understand?

Let me use an analogy.

you have two cups of water. you have one tube that splits into a Y to fill them both. (this is the setup of the batteries and alternator in a deuce)

as you start the truck or use the lights, water is being taken from both batteries at the same rate (assuming no charging system for this example)

to charge the system water is added to both cups at an equal rate by the alternator

What happens if you tap from one battery? you are now taking more water from one cup than the other, but you can only add water equally to both cups. So, How do you think you are going to fill the cups equally?


YOUR NOT!!!, one battery will always be under charged and the other will be overcharged. This greatly shortens the life of the batteries and gives you less power from them.

 

[bottleworks]

Hands down, A battery equalizer will out perform the HUMVEE alternator, and those 24 to 12 V converters. It's worth getting. 100 Amp continuous output potential. You batteries can also be damaged due to any voltage drop across the "dog bone". An equalizer will stop this charge imbalance completely. There is nothing better.

http://www.vanner.com/vp/battery-equalizers.htm

 

[TommyG45]

Let me use an analogy.

you have two cups of water. you have one tube that splits into a Y to fill them both. (this is the setup of the batteries and alternator in a deuce)

as you start the truck or use the lights, water is being taken from both batteries at the same rate (assuming no charging system for this example)

to charge the system water is added to both cups at an equal rate by the alternator

What happens if you tap from one battery? you are now taking more water from one cup than the other, but you can only add water equally to both cups. So, How do you think you are going to fill the cups equally?


YOUR NOT!!!, one battery will always be under charged and the other will be overcharged. This greatly shortens the life of the batteries and gives you less power from them.

Thanks C,

I appreciate you taking another go at this.

 

[cranetruck]

Since I have posted about this in the past, I might as well add my two cents, an equalizer is a good solution, but will not help after the charging system is shut down.

For a long battery life, what matters most is how they are treated after engine shut-down.

 

[FreightTrain]

Here is the dummy version.....The charging system tries to keep the total voltage constant at the full charge line.When you suck off one battery you are running that battery down.The other is still at full charge.When the alternator sees that you have 22.4 volts instead of 24 volts or whatever it tries to charge BOTH batteries at full charge(in this case 28.8 I think).So you have one battery at a full 12.8 volts and another at 9.6 volts.The alternator doesn't see the difference.It just tries to charge them as ONE battery.So the Full battery is getting Overcharged while the dead battery is getting undercharged.You fry the good one and the low one doesn't get enough.

 

[bottleworks]

...an equalizer is a good solution, but will not help after the charging system is shut down.

That is an incorrect statement. A battery equalizer should be connected to the batteries 100% of the time. Even with the engine off. No two batteries are the same. Each battery will naturally discharge at different rates. With the equalizer managing voltage on both batteries, both stay @ equal voltages. When it comes time to start the truck after sitting for sometime, both batteries will be able to produce the greatest output in that situation. If you don't have an equalizer, and one battery discharges faster, it's going to decrease your starting capacity. It's also going to risk shorting the more discharge battery...And it will lower the life of the more discharged battery.

Now I do agree that battery maintenance needed too. If a truck sits for months at a time, a trickle charger/maintainer needs to keep each battery @ 12.6 Volts.

 

[cranetruck]

Well, what I'm saying is that after the charging system is shut down, the batteries may be equally discharged, but that doesn't help the longevity of the batteries. The batteries of our trucks spend 90% or more of the the time with the engine shut down and will need an active (as in externally powered) maintainer/balancer for them to serve a long and useful life. What good does it do to keep both batteries at 10 or 11 volts even if they happen to be within millivolts, they will still sulfate if not kept fully charged?

As a substuitute for a heavy duty/high amperage DC to DC converter, I think a balancer is a good choice.
My statement may not address the subject of the thread specifically, but looking at the whole picture, the idea is to maximize the battery life.

 

[Orionspath]

I've still got a pile of 24v to 12v voltage converters. Mil Spec, very heavy duty 35amp capacity. NOT made overseas crap.

Don, I have wanted this conversion for some time now. Could I pick one up when I see you Wednesday? Sure would appreciate it. Pete

 

[Orionspath]

I have a hydraulic dump bed kit with a 12v pump and have been wondering how best to run the 12v pump on my deuce as well. I know ideally I should have a 24v pump, but I'd like to use what I have if possible. A separate battery that can be charged off the stock alternator would seem to be an easy way to prevent problems.

Headwizard - will your converter work for charging a separate battery that sees this sort of load?

Thanks,

Lance

Lance, is your hydrallic bed stock or is it a conversion? If conversion I'd like to know more as I am picking up another 35 Thursday and would like to add this "accessory" to it and need some guidance. Thanks , Pete