1998 humvee drivetrain storage question

[voopah]

Oh Steelies!

I purchased a late 1990s gov surplus vehicle from ritchie. It has the 6.5 center mount turbo diesel. From the stickers on the vehicle it appears that it was taken out of service in 2013. When I got it home, I checked the engine oil dipstick - it was dry. I checked the trans dipstick - it was dry too. I have not checked the coolant. A external visual of both the engine oil pan and trans pan they are dry on the outside (not moist implying leaks). My question is would USAF or DMRO drain the fluids from a vehicle were it to be stored (or "canned") for a long period of time?

Next Q, should I drop both pans and clean the inside of them before installing new gaskets and filling with proper fluids? Or just fill them and hit the starter? I noticed the front crank pulley has some type of a guard over it held on by several bolts. After adding oil and trans fluid, is my only option to drop the starter and bar the engine over to verify that it is not locked up? Or is there another way to turn the engine over without the starter connected?

To oil up the cylinders is it easier to remove the injectors or glow plugs or remove both for each cylinder?

Thanx!

 

[NDT]

I know you posted in the HMMWV section, but are you talking about a Chevy cutaway with the 6.5? The USMC HMMWVs typically are not fluid drained, whereas USAF vehicles are. I wouldn't drop pans but I would grab the crank pulley and make sure the engine is free.

 

[Mogman]

NDT is correct, I bought a USAF M998 and all fluids were drained, just fill them up change all the filters. you can remove the "dust" cover on the flywheel and bar it over, do not forget the transfer case, differentials and gear hubs!
If it was basically complete to begin with then you might be in good shape, the USAF did not seem to demand too much from their HMMWVs, mine had only 6K on it and still had the original 1993 tires on it!

 

[Action]

You do not need to drop a starter to turn an engine by hand.

 

[voopah]

You do not need to drop a starter to turn an engine by hand.

I will fill with fluids and and replace the oil, fuel and trans filters, then try turning the engine over by hand. First from the serpentine belt and second by bar-ing the flex plate ring gear over two complete revolutions. Thank you for the OJT! Know a reasonable vender that sells the correct batteries for a reasonable price? Two gell cells are aprox $450 where I live (ouch!).

 

[lpcoating]

HMMWV Battery replacements

I recently replaced the batteries in my M996A1 and after years of using Interstate 6TLs that only lasted about 28 months I decided to go with 24Fs. They are the same height and length as the 6TLs but a couple inches narrower so you can use your old battery hold down bracket with them. They...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Coug]

I will fill with fluids and and replace the oil, fuel and trans filters, then try turning the engine over by hand. First from the serpentine belt and second by bar-ing the flex plate ring gear over two complete revolutions. Thank you for the OJT! Know a reasonable vender that sells the correct batteries for a reasonable price? Two gell cells are aprox $450 where I live (ouch!).

Define "reasonable price"
Napa sells 6T batteries for $220ish each with 6 month warranty.
6TAGM will set you back minimum $450 and usually over $600 each

Lots of battery threads and discussion, but part of it always comes down to is it worth the extra money to get the military batteries when the only reason the military actually uses them is because it simplifies the supply system? Any pair of matched batteries over 650ish CCA will do just fine for these rigs unless you're planning on doing a lot of power draw with the engine off. Civilian H1 specs a pair of 800ish CCA batteries.

Group 24 batteries seem the popular replacement. They have enough cranking amps, are available pretty much everywhere at reasonable prices with reasonable warranties, and if you get the flat top version the original battery hold down bracket still works with them

Prices range from about $55 for the cheapest walmart flooded lead acid special with 1 year warranty to $300ish with full 5 year replacement warranty AGM type from Batteries Plus (manufactured by NorthStar, a premium U.S. brand)

 

[TOBASH]

Define "reasonable price"
Napa sells 6T batteries for $220ish each with 6 month warranty.
6TAGM will set you back minimum $450 and usually over $600 each

Lots of battery threads and discussion, but part of it always comes down to is it worth the extra money to get the military batteries when the only reason the military actually uses them is because it simplifies the supply system? Any pair of matched batteries over 650ish CCA will do just fine for these rigs unless you're planning on doing a lot of power draw with the engine off. Civilian H1 specs a pair of 800ish CCA batteries.

Group 24 batteries seem the popular replacement. They have enough cranking amps, are available pretty much everywhere at reasonable prices with reasonable warranties, and if you get the flat top version the original battery hold down bracket still works with them

Prices range from about $55 for the cheapest walmart flooded lead acid special with 1 year warranty to $300ish with full 5 year replacement warranty AGM type from Batteries Plus (manufactured by NorthStar, a premium U.S. brand)

At least part of the reason the military uses the batteries they use is that the batteries are solid state. Out batteries live in the passenger compartment. In a crash or roll over they will not leak on the vehicle occupants.

 

[Mogman]

I will fill with fluids and and replace the oil, fuel and trans filters, then try turning the engine over by hand. First from the serpentine belt and second by bar-ing the flex plate ring gear over two complete revolutions. Thank you for the OJT! Know a reasonable vender that sells the correct batteries for a reasonable price? Two gell cells are aprox $450 where I live (ouch!).

I hate to say this but if $450 for a set of batteries seems like too much money than you picked the wrong vehicle to purchase, that is most likely a mere drop in the bucket compared to what will be coming next.

 

[Coug]

At least part of the reason the military uses the batteries they use is that the batteries are solid state. Out batteries live in the passenger compartment. In a crash or roll over they will not leak on the vehicle occupants.

The early 6T batteries were flooded lead acid; the only thing really special about them was that the vent caps were capable of being submerged under 5 feet of water before they started leaking. I have never seen anywhere saying the military switched over to them for their additional safety in case of accident, but that doesn't mean it wasn't one of the factors. They use the 6T in a lot of different applications though, so changing the type from flooded to absorbed glass mat probably had a lot of factors to consider.

I will agree that AGM are much better/safer for inside the occupant compartment of the vehicle, especially in case of an accident of some type.

 

[Mogman]

I will fill with fluids and and replace the oil, fuel and trans filters, then try turning the engine over by hand. First from the serpentine belt and second by bar-ing the flex plate ring gear over two complete revolutions. Thank you for the OJT! Know a reasonable vender that sells the correct batteries for a reasonable price? Two gell cells are aprox $450 where I live (ouch!).

But seriously you do not want regular lead acid batteries, not just for the off chance you roll it over but that box is fairly sealed and standard batteries give off copious amounts of hydrogen gas at times and that does pose an explosion hazard, it is just not worth the risk to save a few bucks IMHO, AGM batteries can give off hydrogen also but you really have to be abusing them.
So most ether go with the "yellow tops" for a life expectancy of 4-5 years if you are lucky as they are reported to not be as good as they used to or go with the Odyssey batteries with a claimed 10 year life expectancy, which is what I do ($1100 for a pair) only time will tell if it was a wise move.
But ether way try and get a pair of batteries with matching date codes so you will have the best chance of getting a matched pair.
Batteries run in series seem not to have as long of a life expectancy as a single battery system, partially due to the seasonal type of use, swapping them around every year can help.
but you MUST be sure to keep the terminals clean and tight, unlike a regular 12V system a 24V system can burn the terminal off of a battery in a few seconds if loose.
And this should go without saying but never just replace one battery.

 

[Maxjeep1]

But seriously you do not want regular lead acid batteries, not just for the off chance you roll it over but that box is fairly sealed and standard batteries give off copious amounts of hydrogen gas at times and that does pose an explosion hazard, it is just not worth the risk to save a few bucks IMHO, AGM batteries can give off hydrogen also but you really have to be abusing them.
So most ether go with the "yellow tops" for a life expectancy of 4-5 years if you are lucky as they are reported to not be as good as they used to or go with the Odyssey batteries with a claimed 10 year life expectancy, which is what I do ($1100 for a pair) only time will tell if it was a wise move.
But ether way try and get a pair of batteries with matching date codes so you will have the best chance of getting a matched pair.
Batteries run in series seem not to have as long of a life expectancy as a single battery system, partially due to the seasonal type of use, swapping them around every year can help.
but you MUST be sure to keep the terminals clean and tight, unlike a regular 12V system a 24V system can burn the terminal off of a battery in a few seconds if loose.
And this should go without saying but never just replace one battery.

You can get new Hawkers for 976.00 shipped. They build to order so I had to wait awhile for them.

 

[INFChief]

This is the first I’ve heard of all fluids being drained without so much as a rudimentary preservative being put in.

I wonder if these vehicles were in the beginning of a dismantle for spare parts, demil prep, or scrap process when the decision was made to sell as surplus?

If you put fluids back in make an attempt to at least try to prime the engine oil before firing it up.

Who has a definitive answer on why all fluids would be evacuated???

 

[Mogman]

This is the first I’ve heard of all fluids being drained without so much as a rudimentary preservative being put in.

I wonder if these vehicles were in the beginning of a dismantle for spare parts, demil prep, or scrap process when the decision was made to sell as surplus?

If you put fluids back in make an attempt to at least try to prime the engine oil before firing it up.

Who has a definitive answer on why all fluids would be evacuated???

Everything I have bought that came from USAF has had all the fluids drained, and some had the filters also removed with no care at all about the possibility of contamination.

 

[Mullaney]

This is the first I’ve heard of all fluids being drained without so much as a rudimentary preservative being put in.

I wonder if these vehicles were in the beginning of a dismantle for spare parts, demil prep, or scrap process when the decision was made to sell as surplus?

If you put fluids back in make an attempt to at least try to prime the engine oil before firing it up.

Who has a definitive answer on why all fluids would be evacuated???

.
Sad, but the military is getting rid of the vehicle. Adding a preservative would cost money and they don't care IMO. Maybe it has something to do with a "piece of paper process" that is similar to what happens in airplanes in the military bone yards.

We could consider it good fortune that the fuel tanks aren't stabbed with an ice pick to drain them.

 

[INFChief]

.
Sad, but the military is getting rid of the vehicle. Adding a preservative would cost money and they don't care IMO. Maybe it has something to do with a "piece of paper process" that is similar to what happens in airplanes in the military bone yards.

We could consider it good fortune that the fuel tanks aren't stabbed with an ice pick to drain them.

I’ve remember that junk yards in Colorado drained all fluids for EPA compliance.

 

[Mullaney]

I’ve remember that junk yards in Colorado drained all fluids for EPA compliance.

.
Yes Sir. Here in North Carolina the same thing happens here. Everything has to be drained for the vehicles to be crushed too. The local "pull your own part" places locally have the gas tanks removed and fluids removed too to satisfy EPA requirements. Otherwise the ground would be contaminated by parts pullers who just don't care...

 

[voopah]

Steelies - Good news update! First, I want to thank you all for your insight on bringing a vehicle back from the dead from the DRMO. Added fluids, filters, batteries, belts, cleaned electrical connections, some diesel, a wee bit of either and it fired right up. Odometer shows 21k original miles! 35 psi Oil pressure at idle, no leaks! The under carriage is dry. Engine temp is rock solid at 175 degrees. Just need some new tires, alignment and frontend work to hit the road.

Again thanx!

 

[TOBASH]

Just never use ether… NEVER

 

[Coug]

engine should be 180+ for temp. Don't trust the gauge in the dash for accuracy; it's there more as a general guideline, and you only worry about it when something changes. Use a laser thermometer on the head near the thermostat to verify.

I'll second TOBASH, ether is bad in these engines. This engine is a precombustion chamber design with glow plugs, and using ether can detonate early from a hot glow plug. The detonation of ether is also a different energy pulse, and can damage the cups for the precombustion chamber. When the cups in the heads get damaged, it requires disassembly of the engine and at minimum the precombustion chamber cups will need replaced. Worst case it you damage the engine and have to replace the heads.

Other than that, congratulations, sounds like you're well on your way to having a working truck.