20' connex moving on M35A2

[fungus]

Howdy folks,

I know this is going to get some resistance, I'm mostly asking for help from folks who have attempted similar things.

I need to move a 20' shipping container, tare weight 4,400 lbs, about 90 miles through some rough country roads twice per year. The contents are light (home supplies, clothes, etc) well under 600 lbs.

I am building swappable beds for my M35A2, one of which could be a means of tying down a shipping container.

Legality: 8' of overhang would require an oversize load permit. BUT, from what I can tell, that's measured from the end of the bed. If I'm fabricating rails to haul this on, they'll extend to catch the rear ISO corners, meaning zero overhang.

From what I gather, the deuce is rated 2.5t off-road with stock beds. My rails will be lighter than standard beds are anyway. The height will be about the same as the technician shelter that was originally on it.

Has anyone done this? She'll be light in the front, but how light? The rear-most axle is about 8.5ft behind the cab, leaving 11.5ft of overhang behind the rear axle.
The technical terrain will be with a dolly and a dozer once it gets where it's going.
Towing a trailer is not an option. It's too tight to get one whipped around and it's too steep to create a turning area.

Experience?

Thanks folks.

 

[cattlerepairman]

The Deuce has a wheelbase of roughly 15ft. That is measured from the front hubs to mid-point between the tandems. The stock bed is roughly centered over the tandems, which is one reason why the Deuce gets "light" in front when overloaded. Essentially, any weight put into the bed goes onto the rears; very little, if any, goes onto the front axle. This is not how most cargo or dump trucks are laid out.

You will, with an overhang of 11.5 ft behind the rear axle, unload the front significantly. It does not matter whether you "technically" do not create an overhang, as far as the law is concerned; you DO create an overhang as far as physics are concerned.
For comparison, a school bus has that much overhang - 12 ft - rear axle to bumper.
More than 2,500 lbs will be hanging behind the rearmost axle, trying to lift the front.

Unless you had that container weighed - I do not trust them. They are almost always heavier than stated. I'd say more like 4,900 lbs empty.

A Deuce w/w is about 6,500 lbs - ish on the front axle. Almost at max. axle weight already, when empty. Wo/w they are, what, 4800-5000 lbs in front?

Would I lose sleep over it on a level-ish road. Probably not. The 90 miles won't be driven in an hour, for sure (this is a joke). Going off road in this configuration, especially when steep terrain is involved, makes me nervous, however.
Yes, with a huge overhang, the truck rear end can't really drop all that far when the front end lifts into the air. I still don't want to be driving it when that happens.

 

[98G]

Have you ever driven anything with that much overhang?

I really don't think this is viable.

 

[fungus]

Hi cattlerepairman,

It does not matter whether you "technically" do not create an overhang, as far as the law is concerned; you DO create an overhang as far as physics are concerned.

I have to say I disagree with this. Complying with laws matters a lot to me, as I'm the one that will end up with a ticket. If it's the safest thing in the world but violates DOT regs, I'm not going to do it. From what I can tell, overhang is measured from the end of the truck bed; that's why I say that my understanding of the legal requirement is that the requirement is met. The purpose of the discussion is to evaluate if this practice is physically feasible, and provide a space to refute the above legal interpretation.

74% of the container's weight (which is near capacity for a deuce) is behind the rear axle. Does this make the front light enough to not effectively be safe on the road? I can't calculate this. Which is why I'm seeking experience from folks who have significantly rear-loaded one.

Just to be 100% clear, this is NOT going to be in technical terrain. It will be on rutted and potholed gravel, but that is all. All technical terrain will be by cart and dozer.

One of the reasons I have and use a deuce is because the area I live is well-suited to it. 35mph is a fast drive on these roads.

98G,
I have driven equipment with 20ft stickout from rear axle before. You certainly have to keep an eye on things, but it's not impossible on occasion.

One other option I have is to use smaller containers; the AAR containers are tempting. I need water and rodent-tight storage, and those meet the requirements. I do have 2x20ft one-trip containers already, but I can cut them in half. Nothing we have for the homestead is longer than 9.5ft. I'd prefer 10 foot containers, but boy are they pricey.

 

[Barrman]

Could you use a container dolly and tow it?

 

[fungus]

I have a dolly I built to pull them the last rough bit, but I need road transportation. The dolly I built for moving them the last mile would make an inspector shit bricks.

The problem with anything I pull behind is getting it turned. These roads are tight.

 

[VPed]

74 % of the load is behind the rear trunion but the center of the leverage effect of the overhang is 7 feet beyond that. Whether that makes the front end too light is subjective and would be impacted by even the slightest of uphill grade. I suggest you load it up to test how light it feels.

 

[Jbulach]

I think it may work with fairly flat roads and the correct bed/substructure design, but to start before with you get too deep, it might be worth dropping a barrier wall block or other appropriate weight in the rear of the bed to simulate your load, and see how it feels. Then you will have to think about that weight being 4’ higher…
The addition of an ICC bar and lights moved to the rear of your new bed could likely satisfy DOT.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Hi cattlerepairman,

I have to say I disagree with this. Complying with laws matters a lot to me, as I'm the one that will end up with a ticket. If it's the safest thing in the world but violates DOT regs, I'm not going to do it. From what I can tell, overhang is measured from the end of the truck bed; that's why I say that my understanding of the legal requirement is that the requirement is met. The purpose of the discussion is to evaluate if this practice is physically feasible, and provide a space to refute the above legal interpretation.

74% of the container's weight (which is near capacity for a deuce) is behind the rear axle. Does this make the front light enough to not effectively be safe on the road? I can't calculate this. Which is why I'm seeking experience from folks who have significantly rear-loaded one.

Just to be 100% clear, this is NOT going to be in technical terrain. It will be on rutted and potholed gravel, but that is all. All technical terrain will be by cart and dozer.

One of the reasons I have and use a deuce is because the area I live is well-suited to it. 35mph is a fast drive on these roads.

98G,
I have driven equipment with 20ft stickout from rear axle before. You certainly have to keep an eye on things, but it's not impossible on occasion.

One other option I have is to use smaller containers; the AAR containers are tempting. I need water and rodent-tight storage, and those meet the requirements. I do have 2x20ft one-trip containers already, but I can cut them in half. Nothing we have for the homestead is longer than 9.5ft. I'd prefer 10 foot containers, but boy are they pricey.

I am trying to say that compliance with the DOT (no overhang as per law) is not solving your transport problem, if the result of the compliant loading strategy is a Deuce with its front wheels off the ground.


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[Barrman]

What about a long wheelbase M36? Or are the roads too tight for that?

 

[fungus]

Hi Barrman, unfortunately I'm not in a financial place to have a third truck.

Jbulach, good idea with the barrier block, but that does still leave some questions regarding weight distribution due to height and length.

Circling back around to my original question in the first post:

Has anyone done this?

It seems that the answer is no. At least not among active/current members.

I have been working with a local connex distributor and they actually have need for 10' containers, so I may be cooking up a 10' container fab gig. Not sure on that yet. Where I'm working on my deuce I have access to a very steep (but gradual increase in grade) hill to test on, so I can load up a 20' and see how she does.

If I go that route, I'll report back with results (including grade).

Thanks fellas.

 

[cattlerepairman]

If I go that route, I'll report back with results (including grade).

Thanks fellas.

Yes! Those would be some cool pictures!

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[NY Tom]

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[FarmingSmallKubota]

Would you also be over height with a conex on the back of the truck?