20 Minute Install--Locking Hubs

[Rattlehead]

I put mine on the far rear axle for 2 reasons. First, putting it on the farthest axle simulates a shorter wheelbase in as far as the drive wheels, which I think may aid turning radius? Not sure. But the second reason is that, if you encounter a speed bump, driveway entrance, etc, the leading wheels will be driven and the the first ones to encounter the obstacle. But there's 2 schools of thought to that. While they may be the first ones to climb, they will also be pushing down on the rearmost wheels. So which one is better? I dunno, just went with my first thinking.

Regardless, the point of unlocking one hub is to reduce binding when driving around on paved roads. You really don't need much traction in this circumstance, so either one will work. I have not had any problems with driving around with my rearmost axle unlocked. If you do get into trouble, just slap in the front axle to get past whatever difficulty you are having, and unlock it when you are through.

When I used the deuce to pull down that cedar tree a couple weeks ago, I totally forgot that my rear axle was unlocked until it was over. I did engage the front axle though.

 

[MikeON]

Still trying to determine if putting two on that drive axle is wasting money or would it cut down on internal gear movement? I am not an engineer either so the question is one of two lockouts on the front axle of the rear drive tandem?.

With either one or two lockouts on an axle, the differential carrier and ring and pinion will still be turning because they are geared to the driveshaft. Same as with no lockout.

With one lockout disengaged, the axle shafts will be turning at the same speed except for small differences caused by turning or tire diameter differences. The benefit compared to no lockout is that it eliminates stress on the components caused by that small difference in speed, as well as reducing turning radius. The differential spider gears will be turning very slightly to accomodate the axle shaft speed difference.

With two lockouts on the same axle, the axle shafts will still be turning because they are connected via the spider gears to the turning carrier. You might have both axle shafts turning about the same speed, or one shaft stationary with the other turning double speed, or something in between, depending on the difference in frictional drag on the axle shafts. Kind of like when you brake one rear farm tractor wheel and the other speeds up. So you could end up with a lot of motion of the spider gears that you wouldn't have with just one lockout.

Two lockouts on the front axle help if you have air shift, because you can disengage the driveshaft and the gears then don't turn at all.

Mike

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 2nd, 2008. Eat More Groundhog (at least in Pa. as theirs called of 6 weeks more winter- none of the others did!)

Gentlemen:

Great discussion, just let me add that I do believe Mr. JATONKA's going to be selling me a set for the front axle, and probably one for the OE for the no. 2 axle (drivers side). Let me add my observations from driving my M35A2 mostly on the variegated pavements of PAris and Reno, Texas, in rain only.
For whaever reason the dynamics seem to be that if there is a traction reduction in the rear end on starting, that the number two axle (front rear bogie) tends to slip and hop severely due to torque and traction issues (much like the pony axles on Maximum Traction trolley trucks), and the weight does seem to get thrown back on the rear axle momentarily, then the weight seems to balance once the truck gets ready to shift for second gear. So, it would seem logical to place the lockout units on the number two versus the number three axle if you're going to do the rear bogies, moreover if you're going to tow an M104/105/332 1-1/2 ton trailer, the trailers tongue weight would seem to add to the weight on the number three axle by bearing down there. This is of course, a set of observations from a truck that probably doesn't have 250 Lbs in the rear cargo bed beyond the tare weight of 13,450 Lbs for the whole truck, and most probably increased cargo weight on the rear bogie would affect the dynamic augments a little bit. The rear suspensionon these trucks is somewhat less sophisticated then most modern tandems, and they do behave rather oddly at high speed on jointed concrete (leaf spring augmentaton vs a coil springdampening effect (No coils on rear).
Keep up the discussions, We all benefit from them.

With Great Respect and Regards,
Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

1963 Mercedes Benz S404.114 Unimog (Swiss) coils all around/double on rear, rides like a farm tractor
1971 Kaiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" vietnam and Desert Storm Deuce and a Half, Rides like a Balwin 0-6-0 on bad track- minimal bounce-mostly bumps and thumps.

 

[jatonka]

The thread started out as being about the 20 minute installation of my AVM free wheeling hubs for M35s. It has moved to an appearance comparison with the inside side of Ouverson hubs. I would much rather do a performance comparison test of the hubs in the physical world of trails and sand and ruts. I tested these AVMs for a whole spring and summer before offering them to the public. I don't believe I really had to do that,as these hubs were first built in 1957 and have seen severe service ever since. The other hubs have 4 years under their belt. I have a work truck equipped with AVM hubs, It goes places most people wouldn't walk. If anyone wants to try it out and has a way to bring a set Of Ouversons with them to install on the same truck, or bring your truck with Ouversons on it, we'll run them til something breaks. No sweat. Now personally, I figure anyone who takes the time and money to build hubs is going to build them good enough to last a while. Any lockout hub is better than none. Mine are more than likely less expensive at the bottom line. And I have parts and you are dealing with an American who collects and works with M35s all the while. JT

 

[Polverone]

<snip> I plan on doing both fronts and one on the drivers side front drive tandem</snip>

David,
I was wondering why the drivers side? In my little knowledge of the driving dynamics I was wondering if it would be better to be on the passenger side?

My reasoning is that we make tighter turns to the right than the left (usually) and this would keep the inside front dual from scrubbing or trying to "keep up" with the rotation of the outer tires on that axle. Am I saying this right?

But now after just writing this and proofing it for misspelled words, I am thinking that since the outer wheel (drivers side) when unlocked would not be turning in a right hand turn then the inside tire would not...................

So you put it on the drivers side for easier access?

Did I just answer my own question?

 

[sprucemt]

AVM

The pic of the Ouverson hub is out of context compared to the AVM.

This post seems to be heading into a product and or member bashing. Whats up with that?

I think it's great to have a multitude of product available for the members to "CHOOSE" from. It's a great thing to buy US made. But not all great things are made in the US.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Re: AVM

The pic of the Ouverson hub is out of context compared to the AVM.

This post seems to be heading into a product and or member bashing. Whats up with that?

I think it's great to have a multitude of product available for the members to "CHOOSE" from. It's a great thing to buy US made. But not all great things are made in the US.

Don, I don't see it that way. We are just looking at 2 different products. I have much respect for JT and I didn't see anyone bashing him or his products. If one should choose to buy a product made in the USA, how can that be construed as member bashing or product bashing? Perhaps you are right about not all things made in the USA are great, but buying US does support the economy. Since we are comparing products that cost the same, the only things to sway the buyer are the products themself. If everything else is the same on the products, I'd make my decision on where they were made. I am but one member here and if I posted someting that was construed as insulting to John, I sincerely apologize.

 

[tklm539]

Cannot speak about the Ouverson hub as I have not seen or used them. However, the AVM that JATONKA offers I have seen.

The unit is very stout looking. They do not stick out unreasonably on the wheel either. John put a lot of testing into the units (as he does with all his products) prior to offering them to the public. The AVM hubs failed to break after serious abuse. Notice I said abuse. John went way beyond what any reasonable user would put the hubs through. They showed no sign of failure.

JATONKA collects MV but he also uses them for heavy work everyday. If they can stand up to that type of usage, I suspect the same would be true for the casual user, collector, offroader or any other use of the 2.5 ton.

 

[sprucemt]

AVM

Kenny, my statement was not completely directed at you. But please re-read what I did post. I did not make the statement, "Perhaps you are right about not all things made in the USA are great". Kenny, that is not something I would not say.
By purchasing the lock-out hubs from JT, you are in fact supporting an US buisness person and supporting the US economy. To me, it is no different than buying New Star products, some of which are not US made but imported and sold by US owned businesses. Same thing.
If you re-read all of the post's on this subject, you may see that someone may have an issue with AVM and may be using this forum to bash them. If that is the case, I do not approve.
Choice is good. Jatonka's making the AVM product available does give the M35 owners choice.

 

[Offroadfabworks]

RE: AVM

Not getting into the middle of a dispute or anything. As we do Carry the AVM, Ouversons, And mile marker selectros... They all are a very good product. It really comes down to a personal preference as to which one you want. Until recently we have been selling Mile Markers, and Ouversons. Now that JT has the AVMs back in the USA we are starting to carry all three lines.. Im resting assure that JT is a stand up guy and is standing up behind the AVMs as we also have seen them in use on trucks for the last few yrs on the older model AVM lockouts. They still work good as when we put them on rigs years ago... The same thing again is i can also say the same about Randy Ouverson. He stands behind his stuff 100%. as anyone one here knows that has talked to Randy in person he is a very good man to deal with, He makes all his stuff in house. Basically to sum it up they all are good brand of lockouts. but i would suggest the OEM or AVM over the mile markers though.

 

[Recovry4x4]

RE: AVM

Agreed Don! My phrasiology was off from your original statement but it wasn't a quote.

But not all great things are made in the US.

I should have used the quote to begin with. I know by buying AVMs I am supporting the US economy and a US business person but not to the level of buying a product sold and manufactured in the US. My only point with this is that I have 2 products that do the exact same job. Both products are the exact same price. Both products are sold by a US business. One product is manufactured in the US. Less money is sent offshore. I applaud John on all the work he puts into his products and the level of testing he does. Never heard of anyone being dissatisfied with a purchase from John either. This is not a shot at John , just the facts. John, I know you will read this and if I've offended you, I'm sorry. My counrty is going to heck in a hand basket and this is just my view. I do buy imported stuff when I have to but more now than ever, I'm trying not to.

 

[chuck500cc]

RE: AVM

TASTE GREAT!!!!!...............LESS FILLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................TASTE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!..............LESS FILLING!!!!!!!!!!!



just taking the edge off.

Chuck XD Fan

 

[dabtl]

RE: AVM

Thanks. I did not intend this to become a knock a member thread. I had just noticed that USA6x6 was no longer listing or carrying the Ouverson locking hubs when I went by there last month. I figured there was a reason for this, but I do not know. I like the extra bearing in the Ouverson unit, but I do not know if it helps or not.

This forum exists because of the willingness of the members to inform one another. That was the purpose of my post in the beginning.