24 volt "Ford" type remote starter solenoid

[M1008driver]

Somewhere in here is your answer about losing starters. Cables may help slightly. Mine are 2 gauge and I got them made off EBAY. I would suspect the flexplate, shim (10) if needed (usually before 1985 vehicles), starter shield (2) or correct starter bracket (4).

The flexplate is worth changing considering the age of our vehicles. A bad spot will leave you stranded every time and make you think your starter is bad.

GM 15544950 - Starter Bolt
GM 14060613 - Starter Bracket Bolt - M8 x 1.25 x 20 (hardware store)
(8mm x 1.25 bolt, 20mm long with a 13mm head)
GM 14028931 - Starter Bracket - old style Direct Drive starter
GM 23502557 - Starter Bracket - new style Gear Reduction starter

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/692875-post16.html

 

[edpdx]

Several minor things have NOT been touched on. OK, I'll go where I need to go to get it running right without hacking at it.

1) STARTER BOLTS - you ARE USING NEW OEM STARTER BOLTS, right? - they stretch when tightened down to spec with a torque wrench. NO. I have been using the original ones throughout each of the four starter changes. This is a new one on me. Mostly I guess I figured a Grade 8 or better bolt is gonna be the same today as when it was made; but there you go, I didn't know it made a difference. YLSNED.

2) Battery Cables - you HAVE replaced all of them, right? - old ones can be broken or corroded on the INSIDE and you will never get enough electricity to spin ANY starter fast enough to start the engine consistently. No. Not yet- earlier in this thread I discuss getting them changed- at least the long one to the starter and the one that joins the batteries. Until this last problem with the starter I never heard that the cables might be the cause- though I still don't understand how they play a part in burning up the starter?

3) Flex Plate - if it's cracked, you will NEVER get consistent starts - ever - ask me HOW I know - THE ONLY WAY TO CHECK IT is to pull the tranny - though I guess you could just pull the lower inspection plate, but just looking at it won't guarantee you will SEE the cracks - mine were not noticeable until after it was off - once in my hands and I put a slight twisting motion on it the THREE SPLITS IN THE FLEX PLATE WERE OBVIOUS. AHHH! Pull the transmission?!?! I did get a chance to inspect most of it over the course of the last four starter replacements. the teeth and sides all look good; but as you say, you can't know for sure without removing it. Yet I wonder if a crack is affecting the current problem at all because I hear the Clacking relays under the dash and from the starter; but there is no turning of the starter at all. It does not "get worse" over time. It runs perfectly and then one day it simply won't start again... ever- until I replace it.

if you can NOT SAY WITH CERTAINTY that all of these are in tip top shape, you will most likely continue to have starting problems

that's been MY EXPERIENCES

 

[M1008driver]

It runs perfectly and then one day it simply won't start again... ever- until I replace it.

Mine did that and it was a ground. My cables looked good, except they had corroded under the plastic.

My truck ran great and then for no reason nothing. Bad ground due to unseen cable corrosion was the culprit. I used military style connectors I found online and 2 gauge cables from ebay.

I got the copper cables off EBAY, but the quality is outstanding. They have 5/16 and 3/8 ends so you have to make sure you know what you want.

For the long negative to the 24 volt junction bar I ordered 4' with 5/16 and 3/8 ends. Pos to neg cable was 2' with 3/8 ends. (2' was almost too short, but they don't list half sizes) The rear battery pos to 24 volt junction bar was 1' with 5/16 and 3/8 ends.

The 24 volt junction bar is 5/16" and the military connector bolts are 3/8".

 

[epartsman]

If there is too much resistance due to a corroded cable the starter may not be getting the full 24 volts which will not throw out the bendix far enough if at all it may just spin. My DB was brand new, gear reduction, worked out of the box, bracket still avail from GM, and still works flawlessly. It is the Humvee design but mfg to fit the CUCV with the solenoid in the correct place. I am not pushing it by no means and whoever said it was built by 10 yr olds has not visited one of the factories in China. The people that build these live there in a clean environment and start off the day with calistenics in the court yard basicly spending their whole lives there. The rebuild kits you can buy for the 27MT have parts in it made in China. Am I for made in the US? 100% yes but I challenge you to go on any US manufacturer car lot and read the window stickers as to content (Large portions not made in the US) then walk through the parts departments and look at the labels on the parts and see where they are made. It will shock you. I gave a budget conscieous alternative for a brand new direct replacement gear reduction starter from a reputable manufacturer with a warranty. I even have a DB gear reduction in my boat. 3.0 mercruiser GM block which works great. I also suggested all the other items to check as well. Keep working it and don't give up but in order to fix your problem I suggest replacing the original FW first then work from there. These were absolutely abused by the military and since they do not have the million mile odometers there is no way for sure to verify mileage with as much scavaging and parts swapping that has been done to our CUCV's in the field.

 

[edpdx]

After looking for a suitable answer for me and my starter woes, I am considering this modification. After looking at the problem with the starters I have been burning out I would rather take a small risk and try this as a fix. It does not solve the problem I have been having in terms of why my Starter Solenoids are burning up; but at least if I am continuing to burn them out the fix will be easier both on my attitude and my wallet.

Background: Starter after Starter has burned out in just a few months operation. The last episode caught me 3 hours away from home and the tow bill was $500. Can’t do that again. I have a new starter from a reputable builder (Wilson) it is the correct Gear Reduction 28 MT in 24Volt) and I will install that this week, weather permitting. Today I have replaced my Glow Plugs and spade connectors to same. I am also going to test battery cables under load and clean all terminal- any “bad” cables will be rebuilt from fresh components. The Dodhead (sorry could’t resist) has been long done and for good measure I even changed in a new starter relay. The batteries are charged and load tested fine. Other than starting issues plaguing me off-and-on for the past two years, I have been happy with performance of my M1009. So, I am installing a new remote 24 volt starter (ala Ford). Here’s why:



As the key is turned to START, the energy reaches the starter solenoid via the Purple Cable. It energizes the solenoid to close (spring loaded plunger, left). This opens the circuit, closing the contacts (indicated by pointers, right). The longer one holds the key to START, the hotter these become- on their way to a welded state; but even the briefest contact will create some bits to become welded and pitted until one of two things happen: a. the contact points are pitted, corroded and carbon covered to the point that no viable connection can be made (NO START). Or 2. They become welded, won’t separate and cause a “runaway” starter. The latter situation can lead to meltdowns of other components upline.

The remote solenoid moves the burned contacts problem off of the on-board solenoid because there is a “jumper” installed on the starter’s solenoid between the
Since I have already burned through 4 solenoids and repairs outlined in paragraph 2 may or may not solve the problem, I am opting to move the burn out solenoid problem to an easier to work on location somewhere on a convenient firewall.

The starter solenoid I am looking for is the type Ford uses; but I will invest in one that has the best reputation I can afford. Two actually; but the spare will be easily replaced and easily carried in the vehicle. I figure that if I do break down with another No Start that is starter Solenoid related, at least I can quickly get back on the road again and high-tail it back home without having to stop one started.

Will the new firewall-mounted remote last any longer than the one on the Delco Starter? I don’t know. I have heard that the strters solenoid that Ford uses have been known to fuse shut, causing a “Runaway”. Yet, my experience is that I am due for a similar situation anyway. Hopefully The maintenance and repairs from paragraph 2 will mean a fast start-up and contacts that will last longer; but again it seems only a matter of time before the Delco Starter Solenoid is going to fail, so I feel as though I’ll be in a better position to get on the road with the remote. We’ll see.

One question: Does the remote get 12 or 24 volts from the starter relay purple wire? It's 12v right?

 

[M1008driver]

My sister-in-law could have starred on the My Cousin Vinny movie as the expert witness. She says the number one starter problem with our vehicles or Chevy's of those years is the flywheel or flexplate.