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24v-12v Transformer

Russm

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As part of my winterization (for Alaska) I want to get away from using the front battery only for my 12v source. I have the resistor delete set up right now.
I read the CUCV-II's use a step down transformer instead of the resistor. I found an old thread with a link to this:
I understand I'll need to do a bit of rewiring, that's a given

Just have a few questions:

How big does the transformer need to be? (Or how big is it on the CUCV-II's?)

Not sure of the proper terms, but if I need a jump, can I hook the other vehicle (12v) to the output of the transformer and run it backwards? Or is that a no-go?

And if I've not considered something please chime in and set me straight



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MarcusOReallyus

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Okay, I see a few misconceptions here. Let's take them one at a time.

As part of my winterization (for Alaska) I want to get away from using the front battery only for my 12v source. I have the resistor delete set up right now.
Okay, first problem. The resistor bank ONLY affects the glow plugs. It has nothing to do with the 12v for your cab, lights, etc.


I read the CUCV-II's use a step down transformer instead of the resistor.
I found an old thread with a link to this:
That's not a transformer. Transformers only work on AC circuits, not DC. What you are looking at there is a CONVERTER. Not the same thing at all. That's not just being picky - they are completely different. It's like saying transmission when you mean transfer case.


I understand I'll need to do a bit of rewiring, that's a given
Not much. All you would have to do is to disconnect the 12v feed that currently goes to the diamond-shaped terminal on the firewall, and connect that to your converter output. And of course, connect your converter to the 24v supply.

Just have a few questions:

How big does the transformer need to be? (Or how big is it on the CUCV-II's?)
Dunno about the CUCV-IIs, but here's how to figure it out: What is the total current draw of the 12v system? If you are NOT including the GPs, then I think it's about 30 amps max, based on remembering a post by AntennaClimber. 30 amps at 12v = 360 watts. You want some cushion here, so call it 400 watts. AND, it's really not 12v, it should be ~14, so 30*14 = 420. Add some cushion and that's 500.

That's if you don't add any goodies, like a stereo, lights, etc.

Now, if you want to include the GPs, you need to bump that quite a bit. They pull around 80 amps, which is 960 watts. But for some reason, I'm remembering someone giving a number of 1500 watts. And again, it';s not really 12v. 80*14 = 1120.

You definitely want to go bigger than you need, because if you run at the limit all the time, your converter won't have a long life. If I were doing this, I'd want at least double what I calculated.

So, if my numbers from memoroy are correct, then witout the GPs you need 420, so maybe a 1,000 watt unit (420 * 2 = 840, and round up) IF you want to run the GPs as well, you have 1120 + 420 = 1540. 1540 * 2 is 3080. But, the GPs are not used a lot, so maybe a 3,000 watt unit.

Not sure of the proper terms, but if I need a jump, can I hook the other vehicle (12v) to the output of the transformer and run it backwards? Or is that a no-go?
I have heard some people say there are converters that will do that, but I have never encountered one, and I'm skeptical. Certainly it would be a special purpose unit, and therefore more expensive.

Keep in mind, the factory CUCV electrical system, by design, is imbalanced. It pulls the cab load (heater, lights, etc.) from the front battery in its stock form. It's not a problem. Then if you delete the resistor, you add the imbalance of the GPs to a system that is designed to be imbalanced.

If you had a single 24 alternator, I think you'd probably run into problems. But each battery gets the charge it needs from its own alternator. The front battery gets topped up with normal driving. Yes, the front battery goes through a few more discharge/charge cycles. Big deal.

Is it really a problem that needs to be solved? I don't see it, myself. But suit yourself. I hope this helped.

  1. TRANSFORMER: AC TO AC, normally bi-directional.
  2. INVERTER: AC to DC or DC to AC. Normally NOT bi-directional, but that option does exist.
  3. CONVERTER: DC to DC: Normally NOT bi-directional, but some say that option does exist.
 
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MarcusOReallyus

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By the way, you CAN buy a 12v to 24v DC converter for those jump starting situations. I just don't know of any that will do both.
 

Russm

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Thank you that was very thorough and informative.

The idea was to run the glow plugs off of it. Two batteries at -30* have more oomph than just one.

I guess I can find me a resistor for that. The original design works best (go figure lol)

I will try to find a converter for the jump start situation.

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Curtisje

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I did this to my CUCV Wrecker.


You akso have to rewire the alternators. If you leave it the way it is you will feed the 12v side/output but never actually feed/recharge the front battery. The rear battery similarly needs to be fed 12v from the front battery. It's all in my post. Good luck. I'm happy with my modification.
 

MarcusOReallyus

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Thank you that was very thorough and informative.

The idea was to run the glow plugs off of it. Two batteries at -30* have more oomph than just one.

I guess I can find me a resistor for that. The original design works best (go figure lol)

I will try to find a converter for the jump start situation.
Glad to help. Check with CUCVRUS for the resister. He's probably got a basket full of them. If not, try Hillbilly Wizard. Lots of folks speak highly of him.
 

Monkeyboyarmy

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I believe that the CUCV II uses a "step up" converter, with a 12 volt charging system, "12 volt" glow plug system, 24 volt starter and slave systems. The converter charges the high side battery only after the primary battery reaches a minimum voltage.....13.5?? or something like that. I personally wouldn't be afraid whatsoever of running all 12 volt accessories off of the front battery as long as that alternator was capable of maintaining a voltage sufficient for charging (amperage output).
 

Keith_J

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Schertz TX
I have a digital ammeter combination wired in series with the left alternator negative connection, I see a maximum draw of 35 amps with high beams, heater fan and wipers on max.
The big draw is after a cold start where the alternators are 90+ amperes for a few minutes due to after glow.

As far as using a converter to power 12 volt loads, this is not recommended because failure at night will leave you blind. Keep the stock system.
You could replace the glow plug ballast resistor with a 100 amp 24 to 12 volt converter, this would halve the glow plug load so more voltage for cranking. Or you could use a gear reduction starter.
Keep it simple is the best.
 

Curtisje

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When the key is turned on and the wait light comes on the system starts pulling 12 volts at 126 amps. As the cycle continues the amps steadily drop down to 88 amps when the cycle ends and the wait light goes out. With the wait light out the rest of the system is pulling 5 amps.

At least that's what my system pulls...results may vary.
 
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