4 wheel steering on a deuce?anyone done it?

[olly hondro]

I've done the rear steer thing on a smaller vehicle(Datsun pickup) , there are issues:
1. When travelling slowly and turning corners you want the rear wheels to turn OPPOSITE directions from the front.
2. When changing lanes you want them to go the SAME direction.
3. You can get the vehicle a little sideways, yet still go straight down the road, you just use more of it.
It was easy to get confused and spin out, with a Deuce the consequences could be much worse.
Alex

 

[shedhunter]

Just did one! I used a 2way electric over hyd pump from Baum hyds and a 3"x14" cyl with a single spool valve. If its going to be street legal you have to put a positive mechical locking pin to center tires. But thats not a big deal. You'll love it!!

 

[deuce_09]

has anyone heard of this:
my unc was talking about a "cheery picker"tractor?i guess
neway he told me that it has a box u mount in the floor and has 3 setting
lever in first position:turn front tires to the right and the rear will go left
lever in second position:all four tires turn the same direction
lever in third postion: just front steering
is this real or wat(my unc is 70 and this is based off his memory)

 

[MidnightDuramax]

PSC will set up up a kit for both rear axles to steer. My friend is doing it on a pick up with rockwell axles. Just call there and they will answer all the questions you can think of. There sytems are great. I have used quite a few on off road trucks I have built. Great people to deal with.

 

[frodobaggins]

has anyone heard of this:
my unc was talking about a "cheery picker"tractor?i guess
neway he told me that it has a box u mount in the floor and has 3 setting
lever in first position:turn front tires to the right and the rear will go left
lever in second position:all four tires turn the same direction
lever in third postion: just front steering
is this real or wat(my unc is 70 and this is based off his memory)

Seen many a piece of equipment set up like that.

 

[deuce_09]

ill give them a call in a lil bit and ill post what they tell me + $pricing

 

[russ81]

has anyone heard of this:
my unc was talking about a "cheery picker"tractor?i guess
neway he told me that it has a box u mount in the floor and has 3 setting
lever in first position:turn front tires to the right and the rear will go left
lever in second position:all four tires turn the same direction
lever in third postion: just front steering
is this real or wat(my unc is 70 and this is based off his memory)

I work with this equipment every day. You do have several settings depending on the machine.

Front steer only
Rear Steer only
Crab Crawl........both front and rear move in the same direction
Tight Radius.......both front and rear move in the opposit directions

Also, some machines only work the "options" off of toggle switches, and some are set to work off of the steering wheel. Some of the larger "pickers" require you to toggle in the rear axle, turn the steering wheel, then toggle back out to the front axle. Like I said, there are a lot of different set ups.

I'm at lunch right now, but when I go back out in the field I will take some pictures of one of our rough terrain fork trucks that has these options. I will post them this evening.

 

[deuce_09]

thanx..
hey this has nothing to do with deuces or 5 tons or anything millitary
but it does have sumthing to do with 4ws..
look up the jeep hurricane,too bad its not for sale this steering would be awesome for a 5ton or deuce..at least i think so

 

[frodobaggins]

thanx..
hey this has nothing to do with deuces or 5 tons or anything millitary
but it does have sumthing to do with 4ws..
look up the jeep hurricane,too bad its not for sale this steering would be awesome for a 5ton or deuce..at least i think so

Wow, you could have some fun and screw up real easy in that !

 

[deuce_09]

did u watch any vids on it?
there goin to make u wish u had one

 

[deuce_09]

yea it has 80degrees of flex
2-5.7L hemi engines yea i said 2
its the defanition of rock crawler...
damn.. im wayyyy off subject in my own thread..ha

 

[russ81]

Here are some pic's of one of our rough terrain fork trucks. As you can see by the placard it has three steering positions, and they are set by a simple throw lever.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I'm over my head here therefore this may be a silly issue but will using a Rockwell front axle assembly in a rear position effect the way the ring gear and pinion needs to be back lashed?

Seems using a front in the rear will mean having to turn it in the opposite direction. Is this something to consider or am I having a brain fart.

 

[mudguppy]

yes, psc has a kit for front, rear, or front and rear. but, as i said before, you'll want a separate system for the rear so that the rear does not rob pressure from the front system.

as for hydro tandems, basically it is not possible [practically] to control simply thru hydraulics. it'll have to get way more complicated than T's - with T's one axle could steer in the opposite direction as the other even w/ the valve locked. a tandem hydro setup would need precision flow monitoring across isolated circuits - not easy.

easiest way to make it happen would be to mechanically link the two rears (w/ the correct ackerman angle, as previously mentioned) and use a single hydro system to actuate the linkage, thus actuating both axles. getting the mechanical linkage to work w/out binding on suspension articulation and compression would be a feat. then the hydro would be cake after that...

 

[mudguppy]

... Seems using a front in the rear will mean having to turn it in the opposite direction. Is this something to consider or am I having a brain fart.

nope, you'd be fine. but, you'll need to orient the diff assy so that front is still front - not for rotation purposes, but for keeping the ring/pinion gears and bearings alive.

more than likely, you'll rotate the steer axle housing backwards and want to rotate the chunk 180° anyway to get the pinion input close to centered.

 

[deuce_09]

can u modify it to fit the 5ton
if so wats needed

 

[deuce_09]

my last post was for u russ

 

[russ81]

If you can find a junk cherry picker or rough terrain fork truck it would be an easy install if you had already installed a rear steer axle. It is simply hydraulic lines, rams, and valves. The rams mount directly on the axles. The big draw back with using one of these set up's is it would not be "street legal" since you have no mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering knuckles. You would, how ever, gain more room under you hood since you wouldn't have a steering shaft, steering box, ect.. These set up's use a recirculating ball steering valve that can be mounted up under the dash, and the selector valve is a simple manifold.

I have been searching for several years for a wreaked piece of equipment to buy, but the price is pretty high, and most people want to sell the whole thing instead of just parts. It's a little difficult for me to move around an 80 ton cherry picker that doesn't run.

 

[russ81]

Oh, something else I forgot. The hydraulic power unit. I don't know if your power steering pump would be able to provide the volume needed to run two steering rams. The 4 wheel steering units I'm use to dealing with are mounted on machines that have a vast amount of hydraulics on them, so out of necessity they have large volume/pressure pumps capable of running a multitude of tasks at the same time. We're talking machines that have a minimum of 7 or 8 hydraulic rams or hydraulic motors. Because of all this it is almost exclusive to see crank mounted pumps either on the drive motor (most common), or direct drive off of a seperate pony motor dedicated to driving the hydraulics. A good example of this would be a Bobcat. All it is, is a 4 cylinder diesel motor running nothing more then a hydraulic pump.
Even this aside, it should be easy enough to upgrade to a larger hydraulic pump. I'm not an engineer, but you need to make sure you have a large enough pump so as not to "stall" during hard steering, such as rock climbing, and a large enough tank so as not to over heat the oil or starve the pump. But, remember, that too large of a tank will cause the fluid to stay too cool which is also hard on your equipment. A thermostatically controlled heat exchanger would eliminate several of these issues. Again, I'm not an engineer, but most of the industrial machinery I install try to keep their lubricating and hydraulic oils between 120 & 180 degrees. Almost all oils are made to run within a certain temperature range. They have their upper and lower permisable limits, but they also specify a specific operating range.

 

[rmgill]

What about putting the 2nd steering axle in place of the intermediate axle and having the last one fixed? Then you'd just be linking the two and having the second axle turn a smaller amount than the first.
How you get the driveline working on that, I'm not sure.