400hz gen sets able to do 60hz?

[midcounty]

I am new to the world of military generators, but thinking of picking up a 60kw unit. I understand they are all 3 phase, and that is no problem for my intended use. The ones I have seen are 400hz. Are the hz adjustable? Can they be set to a standard 60hz? Do you need to adjust them or will 400hz safely operate anything that 60hz will work? Thanks in advance

 

[Isaac-1]

Unless you have a missile system you need to power most 400hz units are useless on the civilain market.

Ike

*the only exception is purely reistive loads that don't care about frequency, I have read they are sometimes used in the mining industry for lighting, etc.

 

[midcounty]

How did you know what I wanted it for

 

[Nonotagain]

I am new to the world of military generators, but thinking of picking up a 60kw unit. I understand they are all 3 phase, and that is no problem for my intended use. The ones I have seen are 400hz. Are the hz adjustable? Can they be set to a standard 60hz? Do you need to adjust them or will 400hz safely operate anything that 60hz will work? Thanks in advance

For the average person, a 400 Hz generator is a large paper weight.

You can't easily change them over. A 400 Hz machine will power resistive loads, aircraft or military radar equipment, but not much else.

If you are looking for a mil genset, look for a MEP-002 or 003. The 002 is a 5 k set and the 003 is a 10 k version. The 002 uses a 2 cylinder diesel, the 003 uses a 4 cylinder, both operating at 1800 rpm.

 

[midcounty]

I was hoping for at least a 30kw, but no big deal. It was just a thought

 

[Chief_919]

I was hoping for at least a 30kw, but no big deal. It was just a thought

Unless you have a need for that much power, you are asking for trouble. Running a 30k or so with a light load is bad for the generator and will lead to wet stacking, since the engine has very little load the combustion is incomplete and the unburned fuel washes down the cylinder walls, leading to rapid wear on the cylinder walls and rings and oil dilluted with fuel.

Lots of folks think it is a better idea to go way over on your needs, but in reality it is worse for a genset to run it at 15% load than it is at 80% load.

 

[exbrown]

I was hoping for at least a 30kw, but no big deal. It was just a thought

There are 30 and 60 kw units available in 60 Hz, and even larger.

I have a MEP004A 15 kw unit. What application do you have for 30 kw? That is quite a large generator.

 

[Csm Davis]

Also you should know that the miliatry rating is diffrant than the civlian some will say it is double or whatever but a mep-003 will run 90% of the houses in the US.

 

[jpekarek]

Unless you have a need for that much power, you are asking for trouble. Running a 30k or so with a light load is bad for the generator and will lead to wet stacking, since the engine has very little load the combustion is incomplete and the unburned fuel washes down the cylinder walls, leading to rapid wear on the cylinder walls and rings and oil dilluted with fuel.

Lots of folks think it is a better idea to go way over on your needs, but in reality it is worse for a genset to run it at 15% load than it is at 80% load.

Chief is exactly right. Unless you have a way to "load" the genset to at least 80% capacity occasionally, you will start to have problems with the engine and governer system. 30Kw is enough to power an average 3 bedroom house.

 

[Chief_919]

Chief is exactly right. Unless you have a way to "load" the genset to at least 80% capacity occasionally, you will start to have problems with the engine and governer system. 30Kw is enough to power an average 3 bedroom house.

I think you mean 3kw is enough to power a 3br house...

 

[goldneagle]

LOL guys! My house uses a lot more than 15 kw. I have Central Air Conditioning in the Summer and Electric heat pump for winter. uses almost 30 amp 230 volt. Then add the 15 amps for the blower motor. We have 50 amp 230 volt for the stove/ oven. We have Electric dryer at 30 amp 230 volt. On demand hot water heater that uses up to 2 x 40 amp 230 volt circuits. To that add lighting, 3 computers, tv's, 1 large fridge, 1 large freezer, air compressor for the septic system, microwave oven etc. That adds up to a serious load.

i like COMFORT! We could alternate a lot of the loads but why do it if you have the generator that can do most of the loads to live in comfort - while others are just barely running the window A/C and their freezers and fridge.

I have been through a long power outage and it gets boring if you don't have power for the TOYS like TV and computers. You get the picture...

So please don't judge if some of us like the bigger output generator sets.

BTW I took a 15KW 400 HZ generator and turned it into a 42kw generator by replacing the generator head with a new civilian one. I took a bit of wiring because there were components missing from the 400 generator wireing. The head swap was the easy part!

 

[jpekarek]

I think you mean 3kw is enough to power a 3br house...

Actualy no. A 3 KW generator would be a small campsite unit. A household backup generator is between 10Kw and 30Kw.

 

[midcounty]

My reason for a 30kw was to power 2 houses and my gun shop at once. I have 18 years in with the local electric co-op, so I do have an idea about distribution. I have just not messed with the generation aspect of things. Basically I would be doing the work with the gen set that two 25kva transformers are currently doing. I know the transformers aren't maxed by any means. I also know a civilian 5kw will not handle my house with out managing load. My house would be the lighter of the three loads, so with out doing a load analysis I am figuring 30kw would be about right to 'live in comfort', in the event of an emergency.

 

[Chief_919]

LOL guys! My house uses a lot more than 15 kw. I have Central Air Conditioning in the Summer and Electric heat pump for winter. uses almost 30 amp 230 volt. Then add the 15 amps for the blower motor. We have 50 amp 230 volt for the stove/ oven. We have Electric dryer at 30 amp 230 volt. On demand hot water heater that uses up to 2 x 40 amp 230 volt circuits. To that add lighting, 3 computers, tv's, 1 large fridge, 1 large freezer, air compressor for the septic system, microwave oven etc. That adds up to a serious load.

i like COMFORT! We could alternate a lot of the loads but why do it if you have the generator that can do most of the loads to live in comfort - while others are just barely running the window A/C and their freezers and fridge.

I have been through a long power outage and it gets boring if you don't have power for the TOYS like TV and computers. You get the picture...

So please don't judge if some of us like the bigger output generator sets.

BTW I took a 15KW 400 HZ generator and turned it into a 42kw generator by replacing the generator head with a new civilian one. I took a bit of wiring because there were components missing from the 400 generator wireing. The head swap was the easy part!

So what percentage of the time is all this stuff on at the same time?

Maybe 1% of the time you have every burner on the stove, the oven at full blast, are drying clothes, just emptied the hot water heater, and are running the heat or AC at full load, have every light, TV and computer on?

You might get an 80% load or so on a 30kw if the stars align and you are running everying full blast.

The rest of the time what load percent is it running at? Most likely an unhelathy one for the genset.

 

[Chief_919]

Actualy no. A 3 KW generator would be a small campsite unit. A household backup generator is between 10Kw and 30Kw.

Most household units around here run from 5-12kw. Properly done a 3kw works- I do it now.

I have yet to see anyone who installed a 20-30kw who actually ran it at a healthy load for the genset.

Part of backup power is planning to load your generator in a smart fashion.

 

[mikeroot2]

You should snag one of these 750KW units(if you have a spare $23,000 laying around).

 

[Carl_in_NH]

If you want to run everything you've got with the genset you can - but there's a price; whether you run a single light bulb or load the generator all the way to the maximum it does not change the fuel consumption per hour all that much, because you're paying to keep all the rotating mass in motion.

The general rule of thumb is that for each 10KW of generator power, you're going to consume about one gallon of fuel per hour. So, you'll be sucking down roughly three gallons per hour with that 30 KW set whether it's loaded or not. Add to that oil changes at 100 hours - which are about the same as a car oil change given the size of the engine - and you're spending quite a bit on the larger set.

If you need that much power, so be it - just be aware what it's going to cost to run.

Another point; these are not like big-box store generators - an MEP-003A will put out 10KW 24/7 in all weather you're likely to throw at it, and is rated at somewhere between 100% and 300% overload for 30 seconds for starting motor loads (depends on who you ask). They are designed to run like this for thousands of hours before overhaul. An 8KW genset from the store is good for 8KW with a tailwind and your fingers crossed for a few full days of operation before it's pretty well worn out.

A 10KW genset will deliver 52A at 240V; use that for your planning purposes.

 

[stampy]

huh?

Chief is exactly right. Unless you have a way to "load" the genset to at least 80% capacity occasionally, you will start to have problems with the engine and governer system. 30Kw is enough to power an average 3 bedroom house.

30 kw is enough to power a couple to 3 homes...

 

[goldneagle]

You are trying to compare utility uses in NC to LA! I don't think so. My A/C runs about 9 Months out of the year! The rest of the time we are on heat pump. There is NO tank in a On demand water heater system! Ever have your wife do laundry and cook at the same time? Mine does all the time! Washer running, dryer running and hot water heater running (washer uses hot water). Those appliances do not need constant supervision - so you can cook while they run! We dod not have GAS in our block so everything is running on ELECTRIC.

Remember that I said I like to live in comfort and not have to be turning appliances on and off manually because the generator can't handle it.

I am also sure that next big power outage I will have the neighbors coming over to plug their extension cords for powering their fridges and freezers.

If you are happy with your 5 kw unit then enjoy. i tried after Gustav and it was lacking! No A/C and bare necessities! Boredom for days. Hard to sleep when the house is in the 80's with high humidity!

 

[Isaac-1]

I can understand both sides of this debate, for my house I have a 3kw MEP-701a (this is of course a under rated output, even by conservitive numbers it is good for 3.6KW 24x7 and a lot more at surge, post rebuild testing requires running at 200% for 10 minutes). This will run the refrigerator and freezer along with a couple of window air conditioners, a few lights, etc. (I have a gas stove and gas heat). For a long term power outage this would mean comprimises, heating bath water on the stove (electric water heater), cold water laundry, and maybe running the dryer on low with everything else turned off, etc.

By comparision I bought a 33KW commercial diesel generator for my elderly mother's house, it is a large house on a farm with an ample supply of offroad diesel fuel (100 gallon at the generator, plus 1,500 gallons at the barn 1/8th mile from the house). The house is all electic has 3 large and 1 small water heaters, 3 tradiaitonal resistive heat central electric heaters / 3 central air conditioning units (there are also 2 fire places, so electric heat does not get used too much except in extreme cold), electric stove/oven, water well, etc. With everything on in the summer, the generator will run all 3 central air units, plus well, plus running water from 3 of the water heates, and doing normal cooking loads. This lets her live life as normal in a power outage with only the following rules, don't cook and do laundry at the same time and if in winter only run 2 or the 3 electric heaters if cooking or doing laundry.

I think it is important for us to remember everyone has different needs and while a 5-10KW generator will let many people run what they need to run, it is not the right solution for everyone.

Ike

p.s. 33KW Kohler diesel 2.9 GPH full load, 2.2GPH 75% load, 1.6GPH 50% load 1.0 GPH 25% load

3KW MEP701a .5 GPH full load